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Old 11-13-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Just a question . . . do you believe that anyone/anything else besides Jesus is divine? Is he divine because he was begotten . . please explain and if there is scripture you can point me to, I would appreciate it.

I am just asking as I have questions in my own head floating around.
I am not the one you are asking so I won't give my opinion just the definition of divine:

Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language1. (a.) Of or belonging to God; as, divine perfections; the divine will.
2. (a.) Proceeding from God; as, divine judgments.
3. (a.) Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; religious; pious; holy; as, divine service; divine songs; divine worship.
4. (a.) Pertaining to, or proceeding from, a deity; partaking of the nature of a god or the gods.
5. (a.) Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; supremely admirable; apparently above what is human. In this application, the word admits of comparison; as, the divinest mind. Sir J. Davies.
6. (a.) Presageful; foreboding; prescient.
7. (a.) Relating to divinity or theology.
8. (a.) One skilled in divinity; a theologian.
9. (n.) A minister of the gospel; a priest; a clergyman

I hope that helps.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:58 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,413 posts, read 2,340,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I am not the one you are asking so I won't give my opinion just the definition of divine:

Noah Webster's New International Dictionary of the English Language1. (a.) Of or belonging to God; as, divine perfections; the divine will.
2. (a.) Proceeding from God; as, divine judgments.
3. (a.) Appropriated to God, or celebrating his praise; religious; pious; holy; as, divine service; divine songs; divine worship.
4. (a.) Pertaining to, or proceeding from, a deity; partaking of the nature of a god or the gods.
5. (a.) Godlike; heavenly; excellent in the highest degree; supremely admirable; apparently above what is human. In this application, the word admits of comparison; as, the divinest mind. Sir J. Davies.
6. (a.) Presageful; foreboding; prescient.
7. (a.) Relating to divinity or theology.
8. (a.) One skilled in divinity; a theologian.
9. (n.) A minister of the gospel; a priest; a clergyman

I hope that helps.
Hey Lady, Thanks . . . Sista and Lady are terms I use for friends . . .
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:03 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,736,852 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Thank you. Let's hear from more posters who recognize the Deity of Christ, and the triune nature of God.
I'll try and help out here if I can. Here is how I see the term "Word" (logos) used with reference to Jesus:

Jesus is the Word (logos) in John 1:1:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

The Word (logos) becomes flesh:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

We know John was referring to Jesus as the Word (logos), because he uses the phrase "grace and truth" and now associates that phrase with the name Jesus:

Joh 1:17 for the law through Moses was given, the grace and the truth through Jesus Christ did come;

The sword of the Spirit is called the "saying", or utterance (rhema) of God, not the "Word" (logos):

Eph 6:17 and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of God,

The phrase "Word of God", is given to Jesus as a name:

Rev 19:13 and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.

Note: The term "Word" (logos) is used in Rev: 19:13, as opposed to the term "saying" (rhema) in Eph 6:17.

Why is the distinction made between "logos" and "rhema"?

Don't really know, except (IMO) that John wanted to make sure the reader will make the connection between the name given to Jesus in Revelation, and the Word (logos) found in John 1:1 and 1:14. Although it appears difficult to do so when reading Eph 6:17, from an English translation.

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 11-13-2009 at 09:14 PM.. Reason: Reference added
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
hey lady, thanks . . . Sista and lady are terms i use for friends . . .
lol
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Old 11-13-2009, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I'll try and help out here if I can. Here is how I see the term "Word" (logos) used with reference to Jesus:

Jesus is the Word (logos) in John 1:1:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

The Word (logos) becomes flesh:

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

We know John was referring to Jesus as the Word (logos), because he uses the phrase "grace and truth" and now associates that phrase with the name Jesus:

Joh 1:17 for the law through Moses was given, the grace and the truth through Jesus Christ did come;

The sword of the Spirit is called the "saying", or utterance (rhema) of God, not the "Word" (logos):

Eph 6:17 and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of God,

The phrase "Word of God", is given to Jesus as a name:

Rev 19:13 and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.

Note: The term "Word" (logos) is used in Rev: 19:13, as opposed to the term "saying" (rhema) in Eph 6:17.

Why is the distinction made between "logos" and "rhema"?

Don't really know, except (IMO) that John wanted to make sure the reader will make the connection between the name given to Jesus in Revelation, and the Word (logos) found in John 1:1 and 1:14. Although it appears difficult to do so when reading Eph 6:17, from an English translation.
It's good that you bring up these two words rhema and logos...

Now you are saying that logos is the name of Christ.. is that right?

and that rhema is another word for saying..

However, logos is used and translated as saying, speech, thought, account, message, news, reason, story, and word plenty of times in the NT.. why do you think then that it is Jesus' name?

Rhema is translated as word, charge, discourse, fact , message, saying, statement... in the NT as well.

Now what is interesting is when both words are used in the same sentence. Take for example...

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words (rhema); that very word (logos) which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

There is no merit in saying one is any different than the other in meaning.. they are synonyms yet have different nuances perhaps but there is no reason to think that logos is the name of Christ... it is simply a word. I believe that the Septuagint translates both logos and rhema from the Hebrew word dabar.

There is a great article about these two words to prove no other point than to find why both words are so similar: Just thinking...: Rhema vs. Logos
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Old 11-13-2009, 11:08 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,736,852 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It's good that you bring up these two words rhema and logos...

Now you are saying that logos is the name of Christ.. is that right?

and that rhema is another word for saying..

However, logos is used and translated as saying, speech, thought, account, message, news, reason, story, and word plenty of times in the NT.. why do you think then that it is Jesus' name?

Rhema is translated as word, charge, discourse, fact , message, saying, statement... in the NT as well.

Now what is interesting is when both words are used in the same sentence. Take for example...

John 12:48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words (rhema); that very word (logos) which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

There is no merit in saying one is any different than the other in meaning.. they are synonyms yet have different nuances perhaps but there is no reason to think that logos is the name of Christ... it is simply a word. I believe that the Septuagint translates both logos and rhema from the Hebrew word dabar.

There is a great article about these two words to prove no other point than to find why both words are so similar: Just thinking...: Rhema vs. Logos
Well, I'm not sure. Let's read it:

Joh 12:48 `He who is rejecting me, and not receiving my sayings, hath one who is judging him, the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day,

I think the first occurrence "rhema" is the message (or sayings) of His Father, given to Him, to proclaim to us. I remember Jesus saying:

Joh 12:44 And Jesus cried and said, `He who is believing in me, doth not believe in me, but in Him who sent me;

The second occurrence, I think, will be the actual words of Christ, as "logos", that will judge us in 2 Cor. 5:10.

I agree with you, and don't think there is a difference in definition between the two words, per se, other than John did choose to use "logos" in John 1:1 and 1:14, and then again in Revelation 19:13, to connect the three passages somehow together.

But you know, I'll be thinking more about this tonight.

I'll read the article you've posted and give it more thought. I love reading your comments by the way

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 11-13-2009 at 11:18 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
There is no getting through to someone who has been indoctrinated with the "precepts and doctrines of men."
Ain't that the TRUTH!!!
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Old 11-14-2009, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
Reputation: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Just a question . . . do you believe that anyone/anything else besides Jesus is divine? Is he divine because he was begotten . . please explain and if there is scripture you can point me to, I would appreciate it.

I am just asking as I have questions in my own head floating around.
Jesus is divine because he became ONE with the Father....the same calling and objective that should be ours. This is what Jesus came to teach us...and somehow gets lost in the thought processes of so many so called Christians.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
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Those who reject the Deity of Christ, use John 10:34 ''Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said ,you are gods'?, as an argument to support their rejection. This is a failure on their part to understand the meaning of the passage.

In ancient Israel, judges and magistrates, people who were in authority, were called gods. Not in the sense of deity, but only as a designation of authority.

From the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:

quote
34-36 Is it not written in your law- in PS. 83:6, respecting Judges or magistrates.

Ye are gods - being the official representatives and commissioned agents of God.
unquote

Christ was saying to them, 'If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God.'

Jesus Christ IS God, co-equal with God the Father and with God the Holy Spirit.

During His first Advent on earth, during His temptations in the desert, Christ was tempted by Satan to use His own Deity to turn stones into bread. He was being tempted to use His own Deity independantly of the Fathers will, instead of depending on the ministry of God the Holy Spirit as the Father's plan called for. (Matt. 4:3)

One wonders why people who reject the fact that Jesus Christ is God, don't understand that the title 'Son of God' refers to His Deity, and that His title 'Son of Man' refers to his humanity.

Here is the Trinity in Isa. 48:16 ''Come close to me, and listen to this: since the beginning I have not spoken in secret, since the time things began to be, I have been there; and now the Lord God (Adonai Elohim) and His Spirit have sent me.''

This is Jesus Christ speaking.

quote
(48:16) This is one of the clearest of the O.T. intimations of the Trinity. For the speaker here is not the prophet but the LORD Himself.
unquote

(Footnote from The New Scofield Reference Bible, p.755)
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 7,187,683 times
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For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word [Jesus], and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

1 John 5:7.

He that believeth on the Son of God, hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God, hath made Him a liar, because he believeth not the record that God gave His Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

He that hath the Son, hath life; and he that hath not the Son, hath not life.

1 John 5:10-12.
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