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Old 11-12-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
Reputation: 819

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What about it? What's to address?...the Son of Man in Daniel 7 is Christ...so what?...the realization of Him had not been realized until His first advent, which is what we see in the NT Your point is fruitless in regards to the NT...No one in Israel expected God to come down and take on the flesh...but He did, His disciples realized this, and so did those who received Him full in the first century....I suggest you do as well....without all the eisegesis you UR'ers seem to focus on. Your work is blatantly contrary to the Word of God, and I am here to expose you all to those who lurk this site looking for answers so they don't get sucked into your failed doctrine, as UR has severly warped the Christian faith. I am just one of many here....and many out there on the net and the real world who will crush UR, this heretical doctrine of Christ just being a man, and the newage jargon I see so prevalent on this forum....I will crush it wth scripture.

Like I have here....you are wrong in your "assumption" and you all have failed once again against the scripture.

Christ is God manifested in the flesh.

UR is a false doctrine.

Now you address what I posted.....the exact terminology for the Ancient of Days is used for Christ in Revelation.....ADDRESS THAT...or WEEP
I will ask again....address how Jesus can be presented to GOD and still be GOD

Daniel 7:
The Son of Man Presented

13"I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man (Jesus)was coming,
And He (Jesus) came up to the Ancient of Days (GOD)
And was presented before Him (GOD).
14"And to Him (Jesus) was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I will ask again....address how Jesus can be presented to GOD and still be GOD
What part of the scripture are you having trouble understanding?

Let me help and break it down to you again.

The OT pointed to Christ, the Messiah.
The NT realized Christ as the Messiah.

The OT showed the promise of what was to come, and Jesus fulfilled that promise of what was predicted.
The reason why the Jews missed Jesus is because they expected a fleshly king to rule over ethnic Israel. But instead, they got a suffering servant, who died and never ruled the ethnic polity. What you are failing at is weaving a part of scripture that is prophesying what was realised in the NT as God in the flesh...you are making the same mistake the JEws made...thinking their Messiah was just a man...when in fact He wasn't.

He was both.....Deity and Man.

The Jews read Daniel, and they understood it as you did, and they failed, and suffered the consequences.

You belief system is false and contrary to the Word of God.

Now answer my question...why is the same terminology used for God in Daniel and for Christ in Revelation?

ANSWER THE QUESTION.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:33 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
Reputation: 1005
"THE ANCIENT OF DAYS"

"This beautiful phrase is Hebrew, not English, and we would certainly retain it if we conscientiously could. But there seems to be no basis for this translation whatever. Ancient, in the Authorized Version, is the rendering of four stems, which we render OLD, ELATION, PRECEDE, and TRANSFER. The latter, othq, is the stem in Daniel seven. The Authorized Version has rendered it also arrogantly, copy out, drawn, durable, grievous, hard, wax, or become old, leave off, remove, stiff. Such a variety of ideas presents quite a puzzle to a concordant translator. The following passages concern actions which are unmis-
takable, so that we can see that the central idea is TRANSFER:

"Prov.25:1 proverbs...the men of Hezekiah copied out. Gen. 12:8 he removed from thence to a mountain Job 9:5 which removeth the mountains Isa. 28:9 them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the
breasts.

"The men of Hezekiah did not remove the proverbs merely, but transferred, or copied them. So, also, the mountains are not done away with, but transferred from one place to another. Weaning consists in changing over from milk to other food.

"The Ancient of Days" should, therefore read "the Transferer of Days." This, we submit, is vigorous and revealing. "The Ancient of Days" seems to suggest very great age or antiquity. But this seems to have no definite bearing on the vision or on the action which follows. As we recall the time when this vision is fulfilled, the time title is filled with significance. Hitherto man has had his day, but now the crisis has come when man's day must give place to the day of Yahweh. The change from one to the other is accomplished by the action of the great Transferer of Days at this time. He is the grand Adjudicator Who winds up man's day by consigning the western animal to the fire, and by relieving the rest of all their authority. He transfers the authority and the kingdom to Christ in the day of Yahweh. Henceforth all the peoples and clans and languages shall serve Him. Is it not a marvelous title? And Who else could effect such a transfer? (A.E. Knoch, Unsearchable Riches).
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:38 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Now answer my question...why is the same terminology used for God in Daniel and for Christ in Revelation?

ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Both Daniel and Revelation are VISIONS filled with SYMBOLS.

God does not really have white hair and is not a man. "God no one has ever seen."

Moses has hair and robe and sandals in the OT.
Jesus has hair and robe and sandals in the NT.
Therefore, according to your way of thinking, Jesus is Moses.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
Reputation: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What part of the scripture are you having trouble understanding?

Let me help and break it down to you again.

The OT pointed to Christ, the Messiah.
The NT realized Christ as the Messiah.

The OT showed the promise of what was to come, and Jesus fulfilled that promise of what was predicted.
The reason why the Jews missed Jesus is because they expected a fleshly king to rule over ethnic Israel. But instead, they got a suffering servant, who died and never ruled the ethnic polity. What you are failing at is weaving a part of scripture that is prophesying what was realised in the NT as God in the flesh...you are making the same mistake the JEws made...thinking their Messiah was just a man...when in fact He wasn't.

He was both.....Deity and Man.

The Jews read Daniel, and they understood it as you did, and they failed, and suffered the consequences.

You belief system is false and contrary to the Word of God.

Now answer my question...why is the same terminology used for God in Daniel and for Christ in Revelation?

ANSWER THE QUESTION.
Why are you avoiding the question? How can Jesus be presented to GOD and still be GOD? Just explain it.
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
Reputation: 14407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Why are you avoiding the question? How can Jesus be presented to GOD and still be GOD? Just explain it.
The Scriptures are clear that God is Triune in Nature. God is three separate and distinct Persons (therefore, three in Person) Who all have the same exact and identical essence. The same Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Immutability, and Veracity. Yet, they are not to be considered as three God's, but rather as one God in three Persons with one essence.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Why are you avoiding the question? How can Jesus be presented to GOD and still be GOD? Just explain it.
God presents Himself to the Jews as the Son of Man in Daniel 7. Once you figure that out, you will have revelation, which was revealed in Revelation. And I answered your question ChrystyGril, it is just your blindness to the fact that is unwilling to see, lack of scriptural discernment, which I have seen ever so prevalent here at City Data.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
"THE ANCIENT OF DAYS"

"This beautiful phrase is Hebrew, not English, and we would certainly retain it if we conscientiously could. But there seems to be no basis for this translation whatever. Ancient, in the Authorized Version, is the rendering of four stems, which we render OLD, ELATION, PRECEDE, and TRANSFER. The latter, othq, is the stem in Daniel seven. The Authorized Version has rendered it also arrogantly, copy out, drawn, durable, grievous, hard, wax, or become old, leave off, remove, stiff. Such a variety of ideas presents quite a puzzle to a concordant translator. The following passages concern actions which are unmis-
takable, so that we can see that the central idea is TRANSFER:

"Prov.25:1 proverbs...the men of Hezekiah copied out. Gen. 12:8 he removed from thence to a mountain Job 9:5 which removeth the mountains Isa. 28:9 them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the
breasts.

"The men of Hezekiah did not remove the proverbs merely, but transferred, or copied them. So, also, the mountains are not done away with, but transferred from one place to another. Weaning consists in changing over from milk to other food.

"The Ancient of Days" should, therefore read "the Transferer of Days." This, we submit, is vigorous and revealing. "The Ancient of Days" seems to suggest very great age or antiquity. But this seems to have no definite bearing on the vision or on the action which follows. As we recall the time when this vision is fulfilled, the time title is filled with significance. Hitherto man has had his day, but now the crisis has come when man's day must give place to the day of Yahweh. The change from one to the other is accomplished by the action of the great Transferer of Days at this time. He is the grand Adjudicator Who winds up man's day by consigning the western animal to the fire, and by relieving the rest of all their authority. He transfers the authority and the kingdom to Christ in the day of Yahweh. Henceforth all the peoples and clans and languages shall serve Him. Is it not a marvelous title? And Who else could effect such a transfer? (A.E. Knoch, Unsearchable Riches).

Eusebius...your eisegesis is no longer being considered anymore from me.
Don't waste your breath...you have proven over and over the disregard for the word of God and Christ. Carry on with your bad self.
Your interest in Syntax is intriguing, but it is nonetheless, erred in may ways.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:10 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,736,852 times
Reputation: 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The Scriptures are clear that God is Triune in Nature. God is three separate and distinct Persons (therefore, three in Person) Who all have the same exact and identical essence. The same Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Immutability, and Veracity. Yet, they are not to be considered as three God's, but rather as one God in three Persons with one essence.
Mike555, Amen...well said
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:19 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Eusebius...your eisegesis is no longer being considered anymore from me.
Don't waste your breath...you have proven over and over the disregard for the word of God and Christ. Carry on with your bad self.
Your interest in Syntax is intriguing, but it is nonetheless, erred in may ways.
Actually, it is not erred. It is proven without using eisegesis but cold hard facts. Facts which you ignore.

If I disregard the word of God why am I always bringing it to bear against your paganism?

So I will just take this as your post informing me of your final defeat.
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