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Old 11-12-2009, 07:03 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
That is the middle of the verse student..I am talking about the end.

θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

And to correct you on the middle of the verse: it is:

λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν - Word was the God

Your usage of toward is illegitimate, which in Ancient Greek, this is a Preposition, usually used as "at, near, by" and in this case rightly so, as the context defines what the word means...simply....was.

You really need some help with this don't you?
Nope, don't need any help.
G4314
πρός
pros
pros
A strengthened form of G4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward (with the genitive case the side of, that is, pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, that is, near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated): - about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-]) by, for, X at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), + together, to ([you]) -ward, unto, with (-in). In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards, accession to, or nearness at.[/SIZE]
Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

The word was toward God.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:06 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I guess ChrystyGirl has conceded to the debate.

Anyone else care to answer the question?

Why was God and Christ given the same attributes in Daniel and Revelation?
Why was the Son presented to God in Daniel?
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:10 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Absolutely. Jesus Christ is the Living Word, and the Bible is the Written Word. The Mind of Christ. The thinking of Christ set down in writing.

John 1:1 In a beginning which was not a beginning (Eternity past) was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word was with God (Jesus Christ with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit),and the Word ( Jesus Christ) was God (Jesus Christ as part of the Trinity).
Mike knows the bible better than God. He adds to it as if he is inspired.

Notice the contradiction in terms Mike gives: "In a beginning which was not a beginning." In other words, John was so stupid as to write "in the beginning" that, according to Mike, he should have written "In no beginning was the word."

Notice also Mikes unscriptural term "eternity past" LOL! and "Trinity" double LOL!

Drop the paganism, Mike.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:06 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,413 posts, read 2,340,232 times
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I believe Jesus is a diety, so Mike, I am speaking up.

I do not believe Jesus is the Father, and that while Jesus was on earth, there was no "Jehovah God" in heaven, I believe Jehovah, his father, raised him up.

Jesus is a diety because he was not created, but was brought forth, begotten from Jehovah . . .different than created. . . . to put it simply, Jesus is made from "Jehovah" stuff . . which makes him unique/different, and different from anything else . . . He and His father, share the same make-up, the same nature . . .
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:07 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,413 posts, read 2,340,232 times
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Are the co-equal . . . I am not sure, but I think not.

I see scripture telling us that they seve the same purpose, in different capacities . . one as Messiah, King of Kings . . . the other, the Almighty Father.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
Reputation: 1724
Finally a "Jesus is God" thread that I haven't been attacked in! I feel so left out!

This is my 10 year old talking.. "Jesus is not God because Jesus is not a holy spirit and Jesus was on earth. Jesus is God's son and we are all God's sons and daughters. Nobody can be God because God is one of a kind. Jesus is a little younger than God."

Now this is just my daughter talking from her heart. With a pure and innocent understanding of the bible and God. I didn't tell her my thoughts before hand. I simply asked her if Jesus could be God.

Now when I explained the trinitarian view to her she said.. "HUH?" as in 3 = 1.. how is that?


Anyway.. thought I would share that since children are supposed to inherit the kingdom of God and some on here keep telling others that they lack spiritual discernment when obviously even kids can understand the truth but cannot fathom how three people are one.

Also, I wanted someone to address this discrepancy for me:
Normally, at least one person will quote John 1 saying that the word is God because the word became flesh and the pronoun used is "he". Yet we see in Hebrews 4:12:
"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Ephesians tells us the spirit is the sword and the word of God: Ephesians 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Then we can see that in Revelation 2:12 "To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword.

Whose words are these? and how can he be the word if he "has" the sword which is the word of God?

Also who is talking here: Revelation 2:16 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.

So the sword (the spirit of God, the word of God) comes out of his mouth.. whose mouth?

So obviously Christ is not the Word of God as is interpreted by John 1.. right?
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:07 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
Reputation: 14407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Mike knows the bible better than God. He adds to it as if he is inspired.

Notice the contradiction in terms Mike gives: "In a beginning which was not a beginning." In other words, John was so stupid as to write "in the beginning" that, according to Mike, he should have written "In no beginning was the word."

Notice also Mikes unscriptural term "eternity past" LOL! and "Trinity" double LOL!

Drop the paganism, Mike.
John 1:1 In the beginning (en arche-Greek) was (eimi) the Word (logos), and the Word was (eimi) with God, and the Word was (eimi) God.

Compare with the Hebrew in Gen.1:1

The Hebrew word that the spell check keeps editing is 'beresh i t h.'

Gen.1:1 In the beginning (bere****h), God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth.

The Hebrew word bere****h is a prepositional phrase, combining the Hebrew preposition be, meaning ''in,'' and re****h meaning 'beginning.'' It literally means, ''In the beginning which was not the beginning.'' The universe had a beginning, but eternal God did not.

Before the mountains were born, Or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God (Ps. 90:2)

The first phrase in the Gospel of John brings to mind the creation of the universe which is recorded in Genesis 1:1.


In the beginning which was not the beginning (en arche) was(eimi) the Word, and the Word was (eimi) with God, and the Word was (eimi) God. (John 1:1)

The word 'eimi-to be,' is in the imperfect active indicative. It refers to existence. The imperfect tense describes continuous action in the past. In communicating to the human writer of the passage,The Holy Spirit used this tense in this verse to indicate that the Word, The Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:14), existed before the creation of the universe. This verb, repeated as it is, emphasizes the deity of Jesus Christ and His coexistence with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit throughout eternity. Jesus Christ did not have a beginning at any time in the past--He always ''was.''

Bere****h distinquishes eternity past from the beginning of the universe. There was no universe before Genesis 1:1; Neither matter, or energy, or time existed. There was only the God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, and the angelic creation. Genesis 1:1 takes us into the datelessness of eternity past and reveals the sudden origin of the universe.


And in John 1:1, the phrase 'In the beginning which was not the beginning' takes us into the datelessness of eternity past and shows us the preexistence of Jesus Christ.

( This post is based on material presented in ''Creation, Chaos & Restoration'' by Robert B. Thieme. JR. )

Last edited by Michael Way; 11-12-2009 at 10:17 PM..
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Old 11-13-2009, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Why was the Son presented to God in Daniel?
Why was Jesus and God presented in the scripture with the same attributes?

No one can answer this question, therefore all of you have failed.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Nope, don't need any help.
G4314

A strengthened form of G4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward (with the genitive case the side of, that is, pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, that is, near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated): - about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-]) by, for, X at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), + together, to ([you]) -ward, unto, with (-in). In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards, accession to, or nearness at.[/SIZE]
Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries

The word was toward God.
Is that all you have student? Your sidekick Strong's?
Let me tell you something student, your are wrong...you are choosing a definition that makes literally no sense in the Koine language, therefore it is in error...haven't you studied Koine Greek?....oh wait...it shows that you haven't...at all except for your concordance..which is, lack of a better phrase, a first grader's handbook of the languages.

And secondly...the strengthened root word for PROS is πρό, which is defined as before. Which again, breaks your straw man. You have repeatedly failed in all regards of proper linguistic interpretation, and I am dumbfounded why you continue to present it without proper study. Until you can do this, I can't regard your posts in linguistics to matter much, but through careful study, you already have at what appears the desire to learn.

Try a Koine course...there are plenty on the Internet...free of charge.

The proper context is "the".....something you will eventually figure out, on your knees professing Jesus Christ as Lord.
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Old 11-13-2009, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Finally a "Jesus is God" thread that I haven't been attacked in! I feel so left out!

This is my 10 year old talking.. "Jesus is not God because Jesus is not a holy spirit and Jesus was on earth. Jesus is God's son and we are all God's sons and daughters. Nobody can be God because God is one of a kind. Jesus is a little younger than God."

Now this is just my daughter talking from her heart. With a pure and innocent understanding of the bible and God. I didn't tell her my thoughts before hand. I simply asked her if Jesus could be God.

Now when I explained the trinitarian view to her she said.. "HUH?" as in 3 = 1.. how is that?


Anyway.. thought I would share that since children are supposed to inherit the kingdom of God and some on here keep telling others that they lack spiritual discernment when obviously even kids can understand the truth but cannot fathom how three people are one.

Also, I wanted someone to address this discrepancy for me:
Normally, at least one person will quote John 1 saying that the word is God because the word became flesh and the pronoun used is "he". Yet we see in Hebrews 4:12:
"For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

Ephesians tells us the spirit is the sword and the word of God: Ephesians 6:17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Then we can see that in Revelation 2:12 "To the angel of the church in Pergamum write: These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword.

Whose words are these? and how can he be the word if he "has" the sword which is the word of God?

Also who is talking here: Revelation 2:16 'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.

So the sword (the spirit of God, the word of God) comes out of his mouth.. whose mouth?

So obviously Christ is not the Word of God as is interpreted by John 1.. right?
Katonjj....children do inherit the kingdom of God...yet the passage you are referring to here has nothing to do with a child's mind, but has everything to do with a child's love....that is the message here.

Katonjj,

maybe you, since everyone else has failed here in presenting their non-deity strawman...can you answer the begging question...why is God and Jesus portrayed with the same attributes as each other in Daniel and Revelation?

Look back a few posts where I point them out. Thanks.
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