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Old 11-11-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Ever since Jesus Christ came into the world, He has been and will forevermore be the unique person of the universe. He is both true humanity, and eternal and infinite God in one person. He is in nature, co-equal and co-eternal with both God the Father and with God the Holy Spirit. It is only in position as it relates to God the Fathers eternal plan of salvation, that Jesus Christ voluntarily assumed the role of a servant, and as a man, he was submissive to the Father as a Son. Please visit the follow links.

Jesus is not the Father

pre existence of the Son

Last edited by Michael Way; 11-11-2009 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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The scriptures plainly reveal His human and divine nature. Amen Mike....see we agree on lots of things. Eschatology maybe not so, but is that a salvation issue...I think not. Good article. The problem with this doctrine is the carnal understanding of God......is fruitless. God is Lord over all things seen and unseen, and He has manifested Himself into three natures revealed to man, The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. He is able to do this. Why?

Because He is God. He is still singular, and to be worshipped as such, but only by the blood of Jesus Christ, Himself in the flesh, blood spilt for us, and washed our sins from us, can we only enter into communion with Him.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The scriptures plainly reveal His human and divine nature. Amen Mike....see we agree on lots of things. Eschatology maybe not so, but is that a salvation issue...I think not.
I just added a second link to the thread that you might like.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I just added a second link to the thread that you might like.

Good article as well.....so those reading this thread will see the error in this doctrine, as it is false and contrary to Christ, His work, and the overall plan for mankind. Christ is part of the Godhead.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:49 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,725,196 times
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This thread oughta be good... All aboard, here we go....LOL.

1. Jesus is not the Father, and the Father is not Jesus
2. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not Jesus
3. The Holy Spirit is not the Father, and the Father is not the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of both the Son and the Father, yet remains distinct.

Three distinct persons, co-eternal and co-equal, within a singular (monotheistic) Godhead.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

Here is how Joel Parkenson describes it:
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/083a-TheIntellectualTriunityofGod.pdf (broken link)

And the late Gordon H. Clarke:
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/008a-TheTrinity.pdf (broken link)

And Gary Crampton:
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/119a-TheBiblicalDoctrineoftheTrinity.pdf (broken link)

Enjoy!
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:16 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Just to reiterate a couple of points from the second link:

In Hebrews 1:6 God the Father tells the angels to worship Jesus Christ. Only God is to be worshiped. Therefore, Jesus Christ is God.

In Hebrews 1:8 God the Father CALLS Jesus Christ God.

V8) But of the Son He says, ''THY THRONE O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER.'' And therefore, once again, Jesus Christ is God.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:23 PM
 
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Though Jesus is Divine the Bible does not ever say He is eternal. As a matter of fact, the bible never states that God is eternal.
Instead the Old Testament always relates God to Olam which is age in the noun form and eonian in the adjectival form.

The Hebrew scholars who translated the Hebrew into Greek called the Septuagint translated Olam in the noun form as aion and adjectival form as aionion.

Jesus cannot be the God who fills heaven and earth because David, under inspiration wrote:
Psa 110:1 A Davidic Psalm The averring of Yahweh to my Lord: Sit at My right Until I should set Your enemies as a stool for Your feet.

So Jesus is David's Lord but God i.e. Yahweh was telling David's Lord what to do. It is not "Yahweh said to Himself."
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Just to reiterate a couple of points from the second link:

In Hebrews 1:6 God the Father tells the angels to worship Jesus Christ. Only God is to be worshiped. Therefore, Jesus Christ is God.

In Hebrews 1:8 God the Father CALLS Jesus Christ God.

V8) But of the Son He says, ''THY THRONE O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER.'' And therefore, once again, Jesus Christ is God.

Again...well said. Worship Christ! For He is....I AM
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:44 PM
 
32 posts, read 34,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Though Jesus is Divine the Bible does not ever say He is eternal. As a matter of fact, the bible never states that God is eternal.
Instead the Old Testament always relates God to Olam which is age in the noun form and eonian in the adjectival form.

The Hebrew scholars who translated the Hebrew into Greek called the Septuagint translated Olam in the noun form as aion and adjectival form as aionion.

Jesus cannot be the God who fills heaven and earth because David, under inspiration wrote:
Psa 110:1 A Davidic Psalm The averring of Yahweh to my Lord: Sit at My right Until I should set Your enemies as a stool for Your feet.

So Jesus is David's Lord but God i.e. Yahweh was telling David's Lord what to do. It is not "Yahweh said to Himself."
Presently JESUS is the KING of the Kingdom of GOD and he is to be worshiped as the LORD. One day JESUS will return the kingdom to GOD the Father and again be subject to His Father.
1 COR 15:20-28

Phil 2:5-11 and especially verse 6
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,003,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Though Jesus is Divine the Bible does not ever say He is eternal. As a matter of fact, the bible never states that God is eternal.
Instead the Old Testament always relates God to Olam which is age in the noun form and eonian in the adjectival form.

Jesus cannot be the God who fills heaven and earth because David, under inspiration wrote:
Psa 110:1 A Davidic Psalm The averring of Yahweh to my Lord: Sit at My right Until I should set Your enemies as a stool for Your feet.

So Jesus is David's Lord but God i.e. Yahweh was telling David's Lord what to do. It is not "Yahweh said to Himself."
Shoddy eisegetical work from Eusebius once again.
Here's some exegesis for you to ponder:

Matt 22:43-46 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any [man] from that day forth ask him any more [questions].

Hebrew 7:4 Now consider how great this man [was], unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Vs 14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Vs 26 For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Luke 1:76 And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;

Vs 78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

Psalm 2: 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.

Believe in Him, or suffer the wrath. Non believers will perish.

Rev 5:11-13 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Dan 7:9-10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev 17:14 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.

Jesus is the Ancient of Days.
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