U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-23-2009, 01:23 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,745,703 times
Reputation: 901

Advertisements

Questions ...

1. If Satan was bound in the pit for the period of time between the death and resurrection of Christ and the fall of the temple in 70 AD, and was not able to decieve the nations or the peoples of the nations, then why did the apostles write about Satan, that he was in the world as God of the age seeking as a lion whom he might devour?


2 Cor 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.


According to the apostles the devil was in the world at the time deceiving/blinding the minds of unbelievers and walking about seeking whomever he might devour. And these passages were obviously written during the 40 years between Christ resurrection and the fall of the temple in 70 AD.






2. The bible clearly prophesies the Messiah will rule on earth from the throne of David ...


Isa 16:5
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.


Luk 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.


Now during Christ first advent, he never once sat on the throne of David. Also we see that the judgments of God shall one day be in the earth, and the inhabitants of the earth will learn righteousness thereby ...


Isa 26:9
With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.


Now it is clear and obvious that the inhabitants of the world have not learned righteousness, but they are mostly yet deceived and unbelieving and unrighteous.






3. Now i notice you do allot of quoting from the writings of the early church, but you seem to ignore the fact that most, if not alll, of the early church fathers were still looking forward to the second coming of Christ. You would think that the disciples of the apostles would have knwn that the fall of the temple in 70 AD was the second coming, as they would have be told by the apostles themselves, who certainly would have known. Yet there is little to no evidence of these things being taught by any of the earliest church fathers. Yes i see you quote Justin Martyr, the only quote you have given as early as the second century, which itself is not proof that he believed Christ had already returned at the fall of the temple in 70 AD, but that he only make reference to the inward reign of Christ in the hearts of believers. He says we are not looking for an Human kingdom, as if it were a reason to be martyred. But in fact Christ explained his kingdom was not of this world(age) when he was being interviewed by Pilate, which thing seemed to have assuaged Pilate of any threat from Christ in regard the empire of Rome.

I say again, if indeed Christ second coming was the fall of the temple in 70 AD and the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersion of the Hebrews throughout the earth, then you would think that would have been made clear by the apostles and or their disciples at that time.

You say that the Roman invasion of Israel by Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander, was the second coming of Christ. And yet you say that the these very same Romans were the beast and the false prophet at the same time?

Also, in rev. we see that the beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire by Christ and his angels at the time of the second coming, so how can it be said that any of the roman officials were cast alive into the lake of fire at the that time?

It seems obvious to me how you are having to go a long way around many different aspects of the new testament in order to try and prove your conclusions. This is all very confusing and does not explain many things problems which arise due to your exegesis. You are always talking about the bad exegesis of others and their eisegesis ... But then you come along and make these claims which fly in the face of so many aspects of prophecy and the words of the apostles themselves concerning the resurrection of the dead among so many other things?

In my opinion you will have to do much better than this ... I am not in the slightest convinced by your study. Though i appreciate the time you took to explain your understanding nevertheless, and am still open minded to listening to other perspectives ... Especially where prophecy is concerned.


I personally believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the Preterist, historicist, idealist, and futurist perspectives. Though i do certainly believe in a literal resurrection of the dead even as Christ was literally raised out of his tomb as were others at the time of his death. And i believe that sin and death and all the works of the devil will be literally destroyed in this universe, not just in the spirit realm.


Amen and Selah ...
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-23-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,686,086 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Kat, did anyone see Jesus return in 70 A.D.? Any historian living at that time? any church member see Him return in 70 A.D.? Anybody? Anybody? I'm not talking about seeing Him in their mind. I'm talking about really seeing Him.

Preterism makes all of God's promises to Israel of none effect.
Christ came on the clouds...anywhere we see God doing this it was in judgement. Look at Isaiah and the fall of Babylon:

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Did the world see these things? No they didn't. But when Babylon fell it was known that God, did these things, for the sun, moon and stars are heavenly symbols of His power.

Same with the clouds:

2 Samuel 22

Job 22:14 Thick clouds [are] a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.

Job is full of His power in the clouds.

Psa 57:10 For thy mercy [is] great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds.

Psa 97:2 Clouds and darkness [are] round about him: righteousness and judgment [are] the habitation of his throne.

Psa 104:3 Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters: who maketh the clouds his chariot: who walketh upon the wings of the wind:

Jerimiah confirms all this:

Jer 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots [shall be] as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

And Daniel:

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him

And Joel:

Joel 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations.

And Christ:

Matt 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

And John of Zebedee:

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Zech 14 was fulfilled here:

Verse 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

John 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

So Eusebius, you see, much of scripture, prophecy, was symbolic, and many places where you see Christ arriving in Judgement at the end of age, the Mosaic Age of Israel, where He judged the nation did in fact happen in 70 AD, and that was the coming He spoke of, not a literal, fleshly, bodily coming that so many on the church today think He is going to arrive. he already came, ushered in the New Covenant realization by eliminating the Old Covenant, the OldHeavens and Earth, where God had planted the first, earthly Zion into existence, transforming that sinful, decadent, stubborn and stiff necked nation into a spritual one, uniting the true covenant, the Abrahamic one, the everlasting one, with Jew and Gentile alike...the New Heavens and Earth.

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou [art] my people.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem, has been planted in both the Heavens and Earth as us....Jew and Gentile...joined together as a bride, with Christ.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,686,086 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
At the same time yet different times... eternity. And this is why I dont know what it is that is tripping you up about UR... I find that it fits so nicely with preterism because it is the hope of salvation that the disciples had and it is the realization of salvation that Christ came back for.. so salvation should..IMO.. belong to all as Christ's work (savior of all men) is done. Completed.
Yes, salvation has been completed as the Old Covenant was eliminated, and transformed into the New Heavens and Earth.
His work on the cross was just the beginning, but because the Jewish Christians were bound, or they thought they were, to the Law, they continued to sacrifices in the temple and such, the very reason for Hebrews and the Peter epistles to direct them away from their errors. The Gentiles were blessed, because they weren't bound to the Law like Jews were.

The problem I have with UR, is the scripture does not reward those who are in denial of the gospel..Christ died for mankind and to save them, but by hearing the gospel, then rejecting it, is plainly stated that they will be left outside of the heavenly throne...Rev 22 is strict about this, and only unveils the discrepancies that many doctrines of the faith have concerning this throughout scripture. God is great, and He is wonderful, but we must also remember that He died for everyone, and took on the the sinful curse of the flesh, overcame it, and sustained the brutality of His death for everyone, and rejecting that alone, makes Him weep, but it also rejoices in Him when one more man or woman accepts the beating He withstood for us, and that one more person coming into the Kingdom makes up for all those who vehemountly denies the work and salvation He provided for us.

Remember that lost sheep....99 of the sheep are righteous, but it is that one who has gone astray that He seeks, and the one more sheep is worth everything to Him, as much as the other 99 that He is certain will inherit eternal life, and be able to have that blessed communion with Him.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 11-23-2009 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: spelling
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,686,086 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Questions ...

1. If Satan was bound in the pit for the period of time between the death and resurrection of Christ and the fall of the temple in 70 AD, and was not able to decieve the nations or the peoples of the nations, then why did the apostles write about Satan, that he was in the world as God of the age seeking as a lion whom he might devour?

2 Cor 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

According to the apostles the devil was in the world at the time deceiving/blinding the minds of unbelievers and walking about seeking whomever he might devour. And these passages were obviously written during the 40 years between Christ resurrection and the fall of the temple in 70 AD.
The point of Satan's binding is not the influence he had on Christians, but his influence he had on the gospel itself. It blew up, and could not be hindered in any way during this period of time. We see the same thing in Revelation:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

This happened throughout the world, the Roman Empire, without hesitation and hinderance in any way. Paul attested to this is Collosians:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Quote:
Isa 16:5
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Fulfilled:

Acts 2:30-34 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hearFor David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Quote:
Now during Christ first advent, he never once sat on the throne of David. Also we see that the judgments of God shall one day be in the earth, and the inhabitants of the earth will learn righteousness thereby ...
I agree...He did not rule on that throne till He ascended.

Quote:
You say that the Roman invasion of Israel by Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander, was the second coming of Christ. And yet you say that the these very same Romans were the beast and the false prophet at the same time?
No. The Beast is Rome. The False Prophet is Apostate Israeli Polity, King and Priest line...two horns...like a lamb...Dragon.

Compare Daniel and his beast...seven heads, ten horns. Little horn
Compare Rev 17....Scarlet Beast, Ten Horns Seven Heads, and Woman on top. The little Horn, False Prophet, and Woman (Mother of Harlots, Mystery Babylon) are all Israel.

Quote:
Also, in rev. we see that the beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire by Christ and his angels at the time of the second coming, so how can it be said that any of the roman officials were cast alive into the lake of fire at the that time?
These are spirutal symbolic renditions of what is on earth. These are destroyed by Christ, the Gospel...the White Rider and Horse that conquered, the Lamb dressed in a vestige of His own blood, sword (gospel) coming out of His mouth, destroying all that is symbolic of them.

I always have an answer, that is always backed up in scripture. Believe it or not, but the main failure of the church is it has intertwined what is in the heavenlies and copied it to what is here on earth, instead of relating it exegetically.

As you say....Amen and Selah.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 03:43 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 13,846,241 times
Reputation: 997
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Christ came on the clouds...anywhere we see God doing this it was in judgement. Look at Isaiah and the fall of Babylon:
.
Sciota, that does not fly (pardon the pun).

When Christ returns He is to visibly bring the nations before Him, judge them as to how they treated His brethren, kick out of Israel all who are offending and leave the righteous to reign with Him in Israel and especially Jerusalem along with the 12.

Which person visibly saw that occur before, during or after 70 A.D.?

It never happened!

Your theology is as bad as Hymeneus and Philetus who said the resurrection already occurred:

and their word will spread as gangrene, of whom are Hymeneus and Philetus, who swerve as to truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some."
(2 Timothy 2:17-18 CLV)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,686,086 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Sciota, that does not fly (pardon the pun).

When Christ returns He is to visibly bring the nations before Him, judge them as to how they treated His brethren, kick out of Israel all who are offending and leave the righteous to reign with Him in Israel and especially Jerusalem along with the 12.

Which person visibly saw that occur before, during or after 70 A.D.?

It never happened!

Your theology is as bad as Hymeneus and Philetus who said the resurrection already occurred:

and their word will spread as gangrene, of whom are Hymeneus and Philetus, who swerve as to truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and are subverting the faith of some."
(2 Timothy 2:17-18 CLV)
Eusebius, your litreral interpretation of scripture is unsound. It is in there, you just have to "wrap" your mind around. It took me a while, and believe me, I threw some books around, but like all of URer's say, let go of the doctrines of men and read the scripture, and interpret it with scripture alone, not the words of men.

Don't buy it if you want, and I really don't expect you too, now at least, but in time, if you survive long enough, the church will do just that, eventually. There will always be naysayers like you and most futurists, but you must remember one thing, I was like you once, and bought the whole Left Behind Darby theology, and then I read the scriptures

Have fun...and stay busy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,686,086 times
Reputation: 422
"at hand...quickly....soon"!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 05:16 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 13,846,241 times
Reputation: 997
sciota, it is not Darby theology as I never got it from him.

You just don't understand the secret given to Paul concerning Israel being set aside. Read Romans 9-11. This was written prior to Darby being born.

For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering." And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob." And this is my covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.
(Rom 11:25-27)

I realize that, like Hymeneus and Philetus who said the resurrection was already past (they were probably preterists) you say the complement of the nations and Christ setting foot down on Mount Zion is already past.

Only in the preterist's wild imagination did the above occur. Preterists have gone into the Alice in Wonderland of theology where you can make anything you want of anything.

Like I've said before, if the complement of the nations has already occurred, if Christ already set foot down on Mt. Zion and rescued all Israel and saved all Israel, then we cannot possibly have any celestial destinations because, according to the preterist, that bus already left the station about 2000 years ago. We are under the rule of the 12 apostles, being ruled with an iron club and not grace. I could go on and on but most surely it is all in vain.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 05:20 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 13,846,241 times
Reputation: 997
"at hand...quickly....soon" . . . in the Lord's Day!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-23-2009, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,686,086 times
Reputation: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
sciota, it is not Darby theology as I never got it from him.

You just don't understand the secret given to Paul concerning Israel being set aside. Read Romans 9-11. This was written prior to Darby being born.

For I am not willing for you to be ignorant of this secret, brethren, lest you may be passing for prudent among yourselves, that callousness, in part, on Israel has come, until the complement of the nations may be entering." And thus all Israel shall be saved, according as it is written, Arriving out of Zion shall be the Rescuer. He will be turning away irreverence from Jacob." And this is my covenant with them Whenever I should be eliminating their sins.
(Rom 11:25-27)

I realize that, like Hymeneus and Philetus who said the resurrection was already past (they were probably preterists) you say the complement of the nations and Christ setting foot down on Mount Zion is already past.

Only in the preterist's wild imagination did the above occur. Preterists have gone into the Alice in Wonderland of theology where you can make anything you want of anything.

Like I've said before, if the complement of the nations has already occurred, if Christ already set foot down on Mt. Zion and rescued all Israel and saved all Israel, then we cannot possibly have any celestial destinations because, according to the preterist, that bus already left the station about 2000 years ago. We are under the rule of the 12 apostles, being ruled with an iron club and not grace. I could go on and on but most surely it is all in vain.
Alice in Wonderland....I liked that Eusebius...I have to say, you have certianly grown on me and provide me much laughter. Thanks.

Now....about Darby and Romans 9-11:

The Rapture doctrine came from Darby and he is the father of Dispensationlaism. The creeds never spent much time on the study of the last times, so it is our duty to. The very reason for Preterism.

If we really want to say the creeds supported dispensationalism, we must always look to your Iconic Screenname and see what he thought:

EUSEBIUS Bishop of Caesarea (c. 265 - 340) Extract from the 'Theophania'
"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realized on earth; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.'

Might want to change your name

Now about Romans 9-11:

These chapters are indeed all about eschtology, as we see from a previous exegetical work I performed on this forum a few days ago...alas, only those that saw the truth in it replied, and you, from what I remember, ignored it.

Here's where eschatology comes into play...."all Israel" is the dead...those saints in Hades and the elect Jewish Christians of the first century....the 144k....and the ethnic nation, people of Israel...being delivered.

οὕτω(ς) so, accordingly.....and continues the thought of what precedes or draws out its implications πᾶς Ἰσραήλ all Israel...this only refers to the forgiveness of the "whole" Jewish people or nation, the whole ethnic group in contrast to the saved remnant of the Jews in Paul's day.

γέγραπται - future indicative and passive γράφω to write - the prefix indicates the abiding authority of the document - ἥκω - future indicative action ἀποστρέφω to turn away ἀσέβεια from Jacob...to come, and in the present tense, to be present. ῥυόμενος present middle deponent participle ῥύομαι - the deliverer, Christ, the realization of the New Covenant, as the eradication of the worship under the Mosaic system, which is where we see the tie, since these two verse cannot be separated in verse 27

27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

This is in direct reference to the realized abolishment of the Temple worship in 70 AD.

διαθήκη - this undoubtedly refers to the New Covenant in Christ, the one spilt by His blood, the God Man Christ Himself, who bore the sins of not only the world from beginning to end, but especially to those that have perplexed the Jewish nation since their stiff necked rebellion/transgression in the wilderness.

ἀφέλωμαι - an aorist subjunctive middle - ἀφαιρέω - that He, Christ has taken away, resolved for them, the Jewish nation, from their debt to God.

verse 28 expounds on the benefits from the Gentiles in that they were not bound by the Law, they are blessed, and were never under the subjection of the Old Covenant, the rebellion that had brought this nation of the jews to their demise, and the loss thereof from their standing, as a lamp stand to the world...this lamp was removed Rev 18:23, for "your advantage", the Gentiles advantage....their freedom from the Law.

ατὰ μὲν τὸ εὐαγγέλιον - according to the Gospel... the relation is thereby designated according to which they, the Gentiles, are enemies, as the Jews, under Mosaic Law, are enemies to the gentile, as they persecuted Jewish and Gentile Christians since Christ's death...this ἐχθρός points to the rejection of Israel with which Paul is dealing with throughout this entire chapter....δι᾽ ὑμᾶς ...because of you..."for your advantage"...preposition with accusative is extended to the final cause - ἀγαπητός - those beloved.

This passage, and especially this chapter revolves around Christ's sacrifice in terms with the Jewish nation...that they, as a wife, the bride of the Old Covenant, was now under the new Covenant in Christ, and that Law, was passing away....Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear...for the Jewish nation...and the gentiles were the lucky ones who had never had the burden of that Law....Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

This is the beauty of the New Covenant. It fulfilled everything. It is a covenant...unlike the Old Covenant...Owlam...but the New is forever.....aionion...you live in Mount Zion...already.

Stay busy in the Word!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:08 PM.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top