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Old 11-24-2009, 12:10 PM
7,374 posts, read 7,741,581 times
Reputation: 901


Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Ironmaw.. you are very wise.. and as a URer myself I would like you to think of it this way.. Say that Jesus came to save all men.. would it not be in heaven and earth that all men are saved? So then if all men are saved on earth and in heaven.. yet they don't really act like it.. then isn't it possible that Jesus coming back had the same impact? That perhaps it was the destruction of the temple that solidified the salvation of all? If Jesus has not come back yet.. how can we truly state that salvation is attainable when the NT writers HOPED for salvation but it had not come yet.. what is is that they were waiting for in order to REALIZE salvation rather than simply HOPE for it?

Heb. 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

So isn't it true that Jesus' second coming actually brought salvation? That if you think you have salvation now yet Jesus' second coming is still future then you aren't really saved you are simply hoping you are saved? But if you know in your heart that you are really saved then Jesus had to have come back already...

Does that make sense?

Romans 8:24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?
I understand your perspective, and i have learned allot from you and from sciotamicks and from other preterists as well ... Much to the contrary of what Sciotamicks believes concerning me, i am not a dispensationalist, though i was raised as one, and though i do still find truth in it.

To answer your question i believe there are different aspects of salvation. That is to say I believe the work of salvation from sin and death was started and ultimately finished on the cross ... Though the final product of the work needs must work out eventually in time untill at last sin and death are comepletely destroyed, not only in heaven, but on earth as well ... As it is written, may Gods will be done on earth even as it is done in heaven. From my investigations i have come to the understanding that the things which occured in Israel 2000 years agoe are a portent of things which are yet to come ... Much as Antiochus Epiphanes was in his time a portent of what was to come in 70 ad and what will come in the very last days of this world age. History repeats itself, and it is this cyclical constant that eventually will manifest in the full accomplishment of God will in the earth, so that all the works of the devil will be ultimately destroyed and exist no more in any part of the creation. So that even the devil himself and his fallen angels will be brought back into harmony with God, and no more will any suffering or evil exist at all in the universe. It is written that every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Christ is lord, in heaven and on earth. It is evident that not every knee bows or confess that Christ is lord, on earth at least. Until this is accomplished, God is not all and in all. If God were in all then all would bow to Christ and confess he is their lord on earth and in heaven.

You see, there is this Indian proverb about six blind men and an elephant ... I will post a poem that was based on this proverb that i believe is important in order to illustrate what i believe to be true in regard understanding the nature of the divine ...

John Godfrey Saxe's ( 1816-1887) version of the famous Indian legend,

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
You see i believe that the truth concerning the correct understanding of prophecy is somewhere in the middle of the various interpretation theories of Preterism, historicism, idealism, and futurism and their extremes ... As it is written ...

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Selah ...
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Location: Chicago, Illinois
396 posts, read 533,704 times
Reputation: 41
There cannot be a literal 1000 year Millennial reign from earthly Jerusalem, The kingdom does not come with OBSERVATION (Luke 17:20), and the events in Revelation were "at hand," when John wrote. The Kingdom is heavenly and spiritual, not earthly and natural.
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