Are women supposed to be second class citizens in church? (tradition, believe) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Deguire · 02-19-2009, 07:11 AM

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Tim. 2:11-14

These verses have always been rather disconcerting to me. It sounds as though the writer is implying or even explicitly saying that women are to "know their place" BECAUSE they are to recognize they screwed over the human race and allowing them to be in a position to teach might not bode well.

I short this is what I see:

"I don't allow women to teach or have any place of authority over a man and they should know their place (keep silent) because, look at what happened in the Garden when one of them was left out there, so to speak?"

Sexist? Chauvinistic? Should the tradition continue today?

Fundamentalist · 02-19-2009, 07:17 AM

I thought you were a Christian? you should know the answer. God is about order, authority and roles, that is revealed through the Trinity, was Jesus lesser than God because He bend to the will of God? His will clearly revealed in the bible and to label such petty, finite terminology against an perfect infinite God of sexism, chauvinistic is beyond trite.

Deguire · 02-19-2009, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

I thought you were a Christian? you should know the answer. God is about order, authority and roles, that is revealed through the Trinity, was Jesus lesser than God because He bend to the will of God? His will clearly revealed in the bible and to label such petty, finite terminology against an perfect infinite God of sexism, chauvinistic is beyond trite.

Huh???

Please tell me what you get from those verses then, sir? Paraphrase it for me. Let me start it for you:

"I don't accept women teaching men nor to exercise authority over them and they should keep silent BECAUSE...."

ElizaTeal · 02-19-2009, 07:53 AM

The first "glass ceiling' was found in church. The excuse men use is, when God speaks to men in the church he never tells them to put a woman in power, thus women are seldom in high positions in the church. What a cop-out.

Deguire · 02-19-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonababe

The first "glass ceiling' was found in church. The excuse men use is, when God speaks to men in the church he never tells them to put a woman in power, thus women are seldom in high positions in the church. What a cop-out.

Deguire · 02-19-2009, 07:57 AM

Fundz don't go silent on me yet again, you know. I'm waiting.

windtimber · 02-19-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deguire

Sexist? Chauvinistic? Should the tradition continue today?

Sexist? Yes. Chauvinistic? Yes. Should the tradition continue today? No.

Is it a vestige of 1st Century social standards? Yes.

Is that why the bible should be taken seriously, but not literally, and read in context with contemporary social order? Yes.

Jackyfrost01 · 02-19-2009, 08:10 AM

if they are then thats all the more reason to blow it off imho

Fundamentalist · 02-19-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deguire

Fundz don't go silent on me yet again, you know. I'm waiting.

There is a similar link with my responses to the same thread.

Miss Blue · 02-19-2009, 08:31 AM

We have many many threads on this subject..A search will probably answer your questions, unless you just desire to drag people into useless arguements. as the title of the thread invokes)BTW, I believe there is no gender difference in the church, we are equal in the eyes and heart of Gods,and the gifts are not gender oriented either..I am not subscribing to this thread and I am outta here for the day