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Old 12-05-2009, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Florida
595 posts, read 679,956 times
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The Thousand Years

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had notreceived his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Please, tell me if I am missing something?
Is this symbolic of those who do not worship satan in their life or literally those who do not take the mark of the beast.

Also, I'm looking at this as symbolic or figuratively, because as we, believers are marked with the Holy Spirit, (the invisible quality of God), the unbeliever perhaps, be marked with the seal of satan?

Also, I checked the footnotes and not one of them says Jesus reigns on earth.

All scripture is so welcomed!
God Bless!
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,868,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
The Thousand Years

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had notreceived his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Tell me where in these verses do you see "on earth"?
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Old 12-05-2009, 11:59 AM
 
118 posts, read 158,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercy777 View Post
The Thousand Years

1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. 4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had notreceived his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Please, tell me if I am missing something?
Is this symbolic of those who do not worship satan in their life or literally those who do not take the mark of the beast.

Also, I'm looking at this as symbolic or figuratively, because as we, believers are marked with the Holy Spirit, (the invisible quality of God), the unbeliever perhaps, be marked with the seal of satan?

Also, I checked the footnotes and not one of them says Jesus reigns on earth.

All scripture is so welcomed!
God Bless!
Hi Mercy777,

There is no mention of Christ reigning on an earthly throne in the above scripture. In fact, I believe the idea of Christ reigning on earth is against other scriptures. Here are a few:

Psalm 103


19 The LORD has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all.

Isaiah 66

1 This is what the LORD says:
"Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
Where is the house you will build for me?
Where will my resting place be?





We must also think logically. Since Christ is God and scripture states He became less of Himself for our sakes, why would His reign be different then with us? Let me explain. God has reigned before time, He was never created. Why would He become less of Himself when His throne was established? It is like man becoming an ant and redeeming them to Himself because God is greater than man. This was His first coming. Why would then His throne which is forever be in the form less then Himself.....like an ant for eternity?

No, His reign was always in heaven, not earth. Even though earth is His footstool. Christ said...Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven (Lord's prayer.) Christ's throne was always and will always be in heaven.

Again, Christ reigning on earth in Jerusalem would be illogical since God is God and God reigning on an earthly throne is becoming less of what God is. Earth is not greater then the heavenly realm. It is quite the opposite. The heavenly realm is greater then the earthly realm and that is where Christ's throne is.

What do you think?
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,684,453 times
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Also remember, John of Zebedee was exactly what Rev 20 considered the souls:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

You my friends, are already priests.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:33 PM
 
118 posts, read 158,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Also remember, John of Zebedee was exactly what Rev 20 considered the souls:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

You my friends, are already priests.
Exactly,

Are those that believe in Christ not already taking part in the First Resurrection through Christ? Does the lake of fire (second death) have any power over those that are saved through Christ's atoning work?

The first resurrection has redeemed us already. It happened when we came to Christ. I believe it began during Christ's ministry and has been going on since then for all those that come to God our Father through His Son. Why must the resurrection be physical? It isn't, it is spiritual or what we call Born Again. Believers partake in this now.

God Bless.
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,684,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romulus0 View Post
Exactly,

Are those that believe in Christ not already taking part in the First Resurrection through Christ? Does the lake of fire (second death) have any power over those that are saved through Christ's atoning work?

The first resurrection has redeemed us already. It happened when we came to Christ. I believe it began during Christ's ministry and has been going on since then for all those that come to God our Father through His Son. Why must the resurrection be physical? It isn't, it is spiritual or what we call Born Again. Believers partake in this now.

God Bless.
Romulus...nice name BTW

I am a Full Preterist, so you may get a little gist of my views when I answer these questions, but it seems from your post and answers, that you may be on that path, or at least partially there.

Personally, the first resurrection was ongoing, from the time just after Christ's resurrection to the Parousia, a spritual present indwelling of Christ in all of us at the realisation of the New Covenant on Earth. This transpired towards the end of the decade 60's in the first century.

You are correct, when we receive Christ, we are resurrected in spirit, and given our incorruptible glorified bodies, that all the saints of the OT and first century apostles including Paul, eragerly awaited, and recieved when Christ removed the mapstand from Old Israel and gave it to the church when the marraige took place. These things were all spiritual, not of the flesh, like the law was and was cursed into from the beginning.

You are right, we all partake in this resurrection now, and this blessing is perpetual till the end of the end of the end, which is a world without end.

We are living in Zion now. We are the New Jerusalem.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I hope I have helped you in some ways, if not, I can be more detailed
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Old 12-05-2009, 01:47 PM
 
118 posts, read 158,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Romulus...nice name BTW

I am a Full Preterist, so you may get a little gist of my views when I answer these questions, but it seems from your post and answers, that you may be on that path, or at least partially there.

Personally, the first resurrection was ongoing, from the time just after Christ's resurrection to the Parousia, a spritual present indwelling of Christ in all of us at the realisation of the New Covenant on Earth. This transpired towards the end of the decade 60's in the first century.

You are correct, when we receive Christ, we are resurrected in spirit, and given our incorruptible glorified bodies, that all the saints of the OT and first century apostles including Paul, eragerly awaited, and recieved when Christ removed the mapstand from Old Israel and gave it to the church when the marraige took place. These things were all spiritual, not of the flesh, like the law was and was cursed into from the beginning.

You are right, we all partake in this resurrection now, and this blessing is perpetual till the end of the end of the end, which is a world without end.

We are living in Zion now. We are the New Jerusalem.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I hope I have helped you in some ways, if not, I can be more detailed
Hi Sciotamicks,

I believe in the Full-Preterist view of scripture as well. I was a futurist for quite a number of years and when I studied scripture for myself I became a Partial-Preterist for about 4 years and then accepted the Full view (kicking and screaming.)

We can both agree that the hope of all creation was the completion of Salvation or Atonement and if this was not completed then we are still in our sins. I believe that Hebrews is the key as it was the path of Christ's completion of atonement for humanity. He was completing the path of atonement just as the high priest in the Old Covenant did but once and for all. The appearance of Christ "unto salvation" was the completion of atonement for all humanity. We are now worthy through Christ to be in the very presence of God again. If this has not occurred then salvation has not come.

God Bless.
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,684,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romulus0 View Post
Hi Sciotamicks,

I believe in the Full-Preterist view of scripture as well. I was a futurist for quite a number of years and when I studied scripture for myself I became a Partial-Preterist for about 4 years and then accepted the Full view (kicking and screaming.)

We can both agree that the hope of all creation was the completion of Salvation or Atonement and if this was not completed then we are still in our sins. I believe that Hebrews is the key as it was the path of Christ's completion of atonement for humanity. He was completing the path of atonement just as the high priest in the Old Covenant did but once and for all. The appearance of Christ "unto salvation" was the completion of atonement for all humanity. We are now worthy through Christ to be in the very presence of God again. If this has not occurred then salvation has not come.

God Bless.
It is nice to have another of the view, and it seems you have a handle on the scripture well my friend. Kicking and screaming huh? Very funny.

My path was a little different, although a futurist for a long time, I was introduced to Preterism by chance, as I searched diligently through the scriptures for future fulfillment and only came to realize it was past as I debated heavily with futurist in their application of Old Testament prophecies being yet unfulfilled. Some guy on another board accused me of Preterism, then I looked it up LOL, and began studying. My first book was The Parousia, which I threw accross the room on several occasions

I didn't agree with some of his ideas, but as I read further, I grasped the view, and bought some more books by Gentry and Chilton.

I was Partial for about......two days LOL, then embraced Full Preterism.

I had been on knees for quite some time in prayer to understand Revelation, and God sent me throughout the scriptures to confrim its past fulfillment, only to sharpon my irn further. I look forward to the same with you, as it will take some sharpening around here and there, becasue many folks are going to have alot of questions for us in the next few years as their prophecies never become realized and our ideas begin to make more sense to them.

God Bless you too.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:06 PM
 
Location: USA
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I don't care where it is, I only want to be there.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Florida
595 posts, read 679,956 times
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Thanks a million! The only reason I was asking was because so many people believe Christ's 1000 year reign is himself walking upon the earth and scripture was telling me different. So I needed the added scripture and clarity. Love Isaiah 66.
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