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Men worshiped a golden calf in the scripture too.. does that make the calf God? Hardly.
Just because men worship something does not make that something God.
The Jews never believed that Jesus was God. They still don't even believe it is possible for God to become human.. I have to agree with that. God is intangible, immaterial.. all around us.
And Jesus was crucified for what? A lie? Then how can He be without sin? But He was.
Therefore the Jews crucified Him without just cause.
Many people I see deny the Virgin Birth, when it is stated as fact in scripture. If you deny one piece of scripture, you deny the whole thing. Simple as that, and Christian you aren't.
Well this thread was posted to find the differences between Oneness and trinity but I guess no one really knows the differences but Walter Martin himself who is no longer on earth to ask... so
Jesus' conception is really not my concern nor my business... I don't ask you about your conception..
He was able to live without sinning because his eyes were on God. He chose to be obedient fully to God. The power of the spirit within us can do that if we chose to be obedient fully. Jesus as a man being sinless is a huge feat. God being sinless makes no sense as he is unable to sin anyway.
Jesus chose to follow God completely. If Jesus was God then did he choose to follow himself? That doesn't show us an example of anything we could accomplish as we undoubtedly are not God.
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Originally Posted by katjonjj
The thread was assuming Jesus is God actually.. and if so.. what is the difference between Oneness and trinity doctrine..
I read the OT and see what the Jews saw if that is what you mean by "Judaizer" because God is not able to be contained. God becoming flesh brings God down to our level in your eyes but in my eyes it brings God down to humanity not becoming humanity which would make God less than God as humans are.
I really shy away from being lumped together with modern day Christians anyway so it really doesn't matter to me.. but you realize there is no command in the bible for anyone to HAVE to believe that Christ is God in order to be saved. but you are welcome to keep saying that I am not a christian... No beef with that here.
I would rather just say that I am a disciple of Christ and his original teachings. There is no greater teacher, lord or master than Christ! and all of Christ points to our savior.. God Almighty whom I worship in spirit and truth.
Like I stated before.. the OP was assuming that Jesus is God and I wanted clarification on the doctrine of Oneness verses the doctrine of the trinity.
But thanks for trying.
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl
I am in absolute 100% agreement with you here!! AMEN and pass the Cheetos!!
Well here is one of my many qualms with the idea that Jesus was born of a man and that he still qualified as a sacrifice for the world.
Psalm 49:7
No man can redeem the life of another or give to God a ransom for him-
If Christ was merely a human being, and not the only begotten son of God immaculately conceived of the holy spirit and in fact the incarnation of deity, God become a man, then his death is not able to ransom anyone from sin and death. It seems to me believing this way really is tantamount to denying the lord who bought you(ransomed you from sin and death) ...
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 12-15-2009 at 12:23 PM..
Jhn 20:25-28
The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Many people I see deny the Virgin Birth, when it is stated as fact in scripture. If you deny one piece of scripture, you deny the whole thing. Simple as that, and Christian you aren't.
Hey, brother. Leave that kind of judgment up to God as it is written that some will have even their faith overthrown, but yet they are still bought with a price and sealed as His. 2 Timothy 2:18-26
Even those that believe in His name will be raised up in the last day.
John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them thatbelieve on hisname:
The problem here is.. are believers abiding in Him or not? Which last day will they be harvested in? The first fruits or the next?
As far as this important matter of doctrine is concerned.... unless they believe that Jesus is God as in "I am he"... they will die in their sins.
That would explain why some saints in coming out of the great tribulation, had to have their robes washed clean by the Blood of the Lamb. I had always applied that towards carnal believers akin to the prodigal son giving up the first inheritance for wild living... as in unrepentant sinful lifestyles... those sins that has been declared as doing them will not inherit the Kingdom of God... like fornicators and idolators.. etc.
Of course, when God recovers some from the snare of the devil or give knowledge unto repentance, then they that are Christ are purging themselves by departing from iniquity with His help...& shall be found as a vessel unto honour in God's House. 2 Timothy 2:18-26 again.
That is probably why we are not to give such judgment as in condemning a believer as not being a christian if they took that errant stance since they have been bought with a price and sealed as His when they believed in His name. Such kind of judgment as to who is His and who is not, cannot be coming from us. God knows those that are His.
We can say who is not of us when it is obvious that they are departing from the faith, but that is entirely different when saying that we are not likeminded with them as opposed to saying that they are not a christian or not saved at all. We should remember the power of God in salvation when we have been bought and sealed as His simply by believing in Jesus Christ.
This is why Jesus exhorted His disciples to "train" disciples to be rooted in Him through the word. It is by loving His words and keeping them are those believers being seen as His disciples by God.
When there is still a chance that God may restore the wayward to the path of righteousness before judgment falls on the House of God first; 1 Peter 4:17, then we are not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as a brother: 2 Thessalonians 3:1-6,14-15
I know that you did not attack anyone directly, but made a condemnation on an errant belief. Just wanted to alert you by not even judging like that.
The only judgment we can give is by the warnings given in the scriptures in correcting others so that they may be found in the faith.
Let us avoid biting and devouring one another, but love one another in serving God that He may recover some from the many snares of the devil.
Let us hope that the scriptures provided by the Lord through Ironmaw1776 may edify those in error so that they may be sound in the faith.
Thanks...I do get a little carried away, as others do as well. And you are right, those things are left up to God, so i apologize...it was out of character for me..
I am a Full Preterist so the devil has no power on us, that is just the flesh James 4:1
Thanks...I do get a little carried away, as others do as well. And you are right, those things are left up to God, so i apologize...it was out of character for me..
Proverbs 27:17Ironsharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
I get carried away too. May all brothers and sisters remind each other Who is really working and ministering as we are only serving Him.
Quote:
I am a Full Preterist so the devil has no power on us, that is just the flesh James 4:1
I would ask what a Full Preterist means, but I do not want to derail the thread.
History has shown that you're not interested in the truth but only to reaffirm your disbelief.
OK... is this kind of statement typical of Christ as God or Christ as man?
Because even disbelief in Christ as God does not lead me to treat a fellow human like the statement above does. I enjoy discourse with like minded people as much as the next gal but it is also good to understand all beliefs which is why I asked this question. My unbelief should come from a strong foundation of knowledge rather than mindlessly following anything that sounds good.
Sound Doctrine...
Sound- Founded in truth or right; supported by justice; not to be overthrown or refuted; not fallacious; as, sound argument or reasoning; a sound objection; sound doctrine; sound principles. (Webster's)
If I discern that a doctrine does not line up with scripture, no matter how many people believe it does, it is not them that is accountable for it... it falls to me.
If a person asks a question about doctrine is it appropriate to state what you did or is that the attitude of someone who does not love their neighbor?
I know that Jesus never sinned once he was anointed....what happened before is pure speculation on the part of man, even you can admit to that....we have no history of Jesus before this time and it is irrelevant anyway.
This is my sentiment on the conception of Christ.. what does it matter where the sperm came from? That really wasn't the point of the story. Jesus was anointed by God and his parents knew he was anointed by God.
Stating that he didn't sin from birth is speculation and so is whether or not Mary had intercourse (besides.. who told them that? Jesus? seems weird)....IMO
Jesus never sinned even once in His life. He was born without a sin nature and He lived His life without committing sin. If at any point in His life, Christ had sinned, then He would have been disqualified from going to the Cross and paying the penalty for our sins. The Justice of God demanded that only a perfect substitute could purchase the freedom of fallen mankind from the slave market of sin. Only a perfect sacrifice, free from blemish, could be qualified to bear in His own body, the sins of the world and satisfy the righteous demands of a Just and Holy God.
That is the very reason for the virgin birth. The sin nature is passed down through the male. Only by coming into the world through a virgin birth, could Jesus not be 'in Adam'. Had Jesus sinned even once, then He would have acquired a sin nature and become spiritually dead and unable to that for which He came into the world to do. To pay the price for our sins.
Where does this stuff come from?
"The sin nature is passed down through the male?"
Did they find a sin gene finally?
Where in the bible do you get this?
I always wondered if the Y chromosome was the cause...perhaps women are exempt from having sin altogether if we can't pass it on?
Sweet!
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