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Old 12-19-2009, 03:52 PM
 
9,690 posts, read 10,018,190 times
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The mark of the beast on the right hand that represents the heart hand which is motivated by buying or selling or money related, not charity. Every thing a person does is done with money intentions, if you can`t get money for what you hand does than why bother is the deadly sin. The mark of the beast on the forehead is a persons thoughts on buying and selling or money related, every plan a person gets is money conscience. If you can not make money with that plan than why bother is a deadly sin. The mark of the beast is the heart of the devil, if you follow him you get charity blind. Where the Lord giving and receiveing is all charity based. You give charity the Lord God in Jesus name and the Lord God will bless you with with his charity Jesus has NO payment plan in his ways There is no money in heaven The pride of money is root of all evil
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Old 12-19-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Is the mark symbolic or literal?

Many of us throughout our lives have wondered deeply about Rev. 13:16-17; 14:9-11, and others to name a few, regarding what is usually called "the mark of the beast." Sad to say, most Christians are woefully unfamiliar with the Old Testament. Therefore, when they approach the book of Revelation, they do so with literalistic, 20th...errr 21st century "interpretations."

The first thing we must acknowledge about Revelation is that it is a book composed almost entirely of symbols, that is, symbols that a first century Jew would have found immediately recognizable.

These symbols were used before in such books as Deuteronomy, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and in Zechariah.

If I wrote to you that a friend of mine had "kicked the bucket," you would understand that it meant he had died. However, 2000 years from now, a person reading my letter may not understand this usage and wonder why my friend kicked a bucket. He might assume my friend was angry!

His assumption, of course, would be wrong, because he would be taking a figurative (symbolic) statement literally. The same is true of the language of the Revelation. When a "mark" is spoken of, it should bring to mind a previous reference to a mark, found in Ezek. 9:3-6.

And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which [had] the writer's inkhorn by his side; And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old [and] young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom [is] the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which [were] before the house.

In that context, Jerusalem was also about to be besieged and destroyed by the Babylonians. The Lord commanded an angel to place "a mark on the foreheads" of those that lamented the wickedness of the city.

This angel is described as having "a writer's inkhorn at his side", with which he was to mark the righteous. It is clear from the context that this was not to be taken literally, as if an angel needed to carry a pen around with him and an inkhorn in which to dip it. This was a symbolic way of showing that there was a specific class of people within the doomed city that were being set apart for preservation - 9:6.

The mark is an emblem of ownership. In Revelation, a similar "mark" is placed on those whom God wishes to preserve Revelation 14:1.

A "mark" is also received by those loyal to the beast, one which sets them apart for destruction Revelation 14:9-11.

We must allow Scripture to interpret itself whenever possible.

Whether or not it or its fulfillment conforms to our ideas of what it should be like, is absolutely irrelevant to the word of God!

Most people today jump into the book of Revelation with the bold assumption that it speaks of our times or a time yet future. This ignores the book's clear statements regarding the time of its fulfillment.

To the readers of the first century, not the 20th or 21st, it was written that these were "things which must shortly come to pass" - Rev. 1:1, and that the time for its fulfillment was "at hand" - Rev. 1:3.

And just in case they missed the point, it was reiterated at the end of the book that these were "things which must shortly be done" - Rev. 22:6.

Christ said to them, "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every man according to his works" - Rev. 22:12.

Compare this to Matt. 16:27-28, in which Jesus stated that some of those listening to Him at that time would not die before seeing the fulfillment of His prophecy. "For the Son of man shall come ... and then He shall reward every man according to his works."

Let us be careful to "hear what the Spirit says to the churches" and allow God's Word to guide our interpretation.

Stay busy in the word!
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Illinois
3,169 posts, read 5,164,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The mark of the beast on the right hand that represents the heart hand which is motivated by buying or selling or money related, not charity. Every thing a person does is done with money intentions, if you can`t get money for what you hand does than why bother is the deadly sin. The mark of the beast on the forehead is a persons thoughts on buying and selling or money related, every plan a person gets is money conscience. If you can not make money with that plan than why bother is a deadly sin. The mark of the beast is the heart of the devil, if you follow him you get charity blind. Where the Lord giving and receiveing is all charity based. You give charity the Lord God in Jesus name and the Lord God will bless you with with his charity Jesus has NO payment plan in his ways There is no money in heaven The pride of money is root of all evil
I think I agree with most of this. Person someone else's post concerning the seal on the head of believers, I do think the mark on the head deals with thoughts and beliefs. Because the mark on the hand is referenced with the mark on the head, that leads me to believe both are symbolic.

Could the hand represent actual dealings and agreeing (as in shaking hands) with the thoughts in the head of people marked by the beast?
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:26 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,868,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I believe it's literal. Wouldn't the devil love to show off his mark on God's creation for God to see?
On God's creation, I can see the devil's evil in that, but on God's redeemed, it shall not be.

God's word says that it will not be on anyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Those that have His seal will not even be forced to choose to have the mark or not as the devil wants every saint to be slain by not taking the mark thereby die by thirst, starvation, or the elements.... if not by those that hunt them down to thrust them through.

When the devil wars against the saints, he does mean war.

The saints that goes through the great tribulation will have to hate that world and their lives in order to love the next.
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:30 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
In the OT the nation of Israel was charged with keeping the commandments of God by teaching them to their children as a mark or reminder on their hand and forehead (Deut. 6:7-8). This is still kept by Jews today and is called Shema.

According to the Jewish Virtual Library during Shema the "Tefillin are two small black boxes with black straps attached to them; Jewish men are required to place one box on their head and tie the other one on their arm each weekday morning."

This was considered the mark on the hand and forehead. Not a tattoo. Not a physical mark but a profession of faith and remembrance/allegiance to the commands of God.

The mark of the beast is not physical.
Doesn't explain the buying and selling by this mark or how it causes the saints to be slain by not taking the mark. Also, the scriptures declare that those whose name is not written in the Book of Life will receive the mark so there is an extra setting apart the people of the world from those that believe in Jesus Christ.
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:34 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,868,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
The mark of the beast on the right hand that represents the heart hand which is motivated by buying or selling or money related, not charity. Every thing a person does is done with money intentions, if you can`t get money for what you hand does than why bother is the deadly sin. The mark of the beast on the forehead is a persons thoughts on buying and selling or money related, every plan a person gets is money conscience. If you can not make money with that plan than why bother is a deadly sin. The mark of the beast is the heart of the devil, if you follow him you get charity blind. Where the Lord giving and receiveing is all charity based. You give charity the Lord God in Jesus name and the Lord God will bless you with with his charity Jesus has NO payment plan in his ways There is no money in heaven The pride of money is root of all evil
Doesn't explain how those saints are being slain by not taking the mark.

The love of money is the root of all evil, but as far as the mark of the beast is concerned, it is an extra setting apart of the people of the world from those whose name is written in the Book of Life.
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:39 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,868,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichele View Post
I think I agree with most of this. Person someone else's post concerning the seal on the head of believers, I do think the mark on the head deals with thoughts and beliefs. Because the mark on the hand is referenced with the mark on the head, that leads me to believe both are symbolic.

Could the hand represent actual dealings and agreeing (as in shaking hands) with the thoughts in the head of people marked by the beast?
Seeing how today's technology is utilizing the bio chip for information in USA and it is being used by a few for buying in Europe... I would have to say that the New World Order is coming with its system of bio chips implementation to mark those as part of the New World Order from those that are not.... and those that are not will be seen as an enemy of peace & unity to be hunted down and killed if thirst, starvation, or the elements do not get the saints that are going through the great tribulation first.
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 6,440,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Betsey,
How's things going? Getting any special visitors for Christmas this year?
I would agree. That is why he masquerades as a angel of light.

I would ask, if literal, then why hasn't there been any literal seal on the foreheads on believers?

Hey there twin spin...Things are going, can't complain, actually I won't complain. Special visitors, hmmmm not that I can think of, then again, my doors always open to the uninvited.

You ask: Why hasn't there been any literal seal on the foreheads of believers?

My answer: Do we need yet another? Are we obeying all the commandments of God? And I do mean ALL........then you're already marked, we are already marked.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,528,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
Doesn't explain the buying and selling by this mark or how it causes the saints to be slain by not taking the mark. Also, the scriptures declare that those whose name is not written in the Book of Life will receive the mark so there is an extra setting apart the people of the world from those that believe in Jesus Christ.
Sure it does. However, you will never see it if you keep thinking that the bible was written about you instead of about 1st century people.

The whole NT was written for 1st century people to understand. So ask yourself what they understood. Did they understand that the mark on the hand and forehead was literal? Nope. The Jews would have understood that the mark would be symbolic... Shema was a practice established by the OT and upheld to this day by the Jews.

I believe this is an error that a lot of Christians make regarding scripture. None of the writers of the NT had our generation in mind when they wrote.
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Old 12-22-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,528,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Hey there twin spin...Things are going, can't complain, actually I won't complain. Special visitors, hmmmm not that I can think of, then again, my doors always open to the uninvited.

You ask: Why hasn't there been any literal seal on the foreheads of believers?

My answer: Do we need yet another? Are we obeying all the commandments of God? And I do mean ALL........then you're already marked, we are already marked.
Then the mark is not literal.

Is that what you are saying.
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