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Old 12-23-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Why would their sin remain, and what sin is that?
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Why would their sin remain, and what sin is that?
A better question might be - are the spiritually blind innocent? As in "Father forgive them - they know not what they do"?
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:53 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Why would their sin remain, and what sin is that?
The sin of unbelief. They are not seeing Him as the Son of God.

John 9: 35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. 39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. 40And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? 41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
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Those who saw Christ, and didn't believe . .
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:29 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,902,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Why would their sin remain, and what sin is that?
Example of saying "I see"
  • Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Example of "If you were blind"
  • Luke 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
One's sin remains the other's does not
  • Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:47 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,903,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Jhn 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.

Why would their sin remain, and what sin is that?

I John 1:8
If we say that we HAVE NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So what does the term "we have no sin" mean? It means: "we have no guilt".

The Greek phrase translated as "have no sin" is: hamartian ouk echomen.

This is the same phrase Jesus used when he told the Pharisees:

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should **have no sin:** but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. (KJV)

The KJV translates "have no sin" which is quite literal but does not convey the sense of Jesus' meaning. The RSV and NIV both point out that "have no sin" is better rendered "have no guilt". For example:

John 9:41
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you
would **have no guilt;** but now that you say,
'We see,' your **guilt** remains. (RSV)

John 9:41
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you
would **not be guilty of sin;**
but now that you claim you can see,
your **guilt** remains. (NIV)

Jesus was declaring that if they were ignorant they would have no guilt but because they could see they would be guilty.

Moffat correctly translates 1 John 1:8 as: "If we say we are not guilty"

John was saying that the false teachers would say in some way or another that if we commit sin, our spirit would "have no guilt"

We see that same concept being taught constantly on this forum in one form or another. They say the modern Christian can commit sin and there is no condemnation - they have no guilt because they are "not under the law"...God cannot see their sin...etc.


HK



.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
A better question might be - are the spiritually blind innocent? As in "Father forgive them - they know not what they do"?
No. That's why they need forgiveness.
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:39 AM
 
Location: New England
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In verse 39 Jesus said " 39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

If you read the gospels it's very clear that the blind who were seeing were the prostitutes,publicans,tax collectors and so forth and those who were not seeing were those who though they could see anyway and therefore in their own minds were not blind in the first place , they went to church paid their tithes,fasted,read the bible,prayed and all the other outward stuff that religious people boast about themselves, not saying any of these things arer wrong , the bottom line is what it is you are trusting in , grace or your own outward acts of religiousness.
Read Luke 18 verses 9 - 14 and Matthew 6 verses 5 - 8
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Jesus was declaring that if they were ignorant they would have no guilt
As in "Father forgive them they know not what they do".
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Old 12-24-2009, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
No. That's why they need forgiveness.
Then how do you reconcile "If you were blind you would have no guilt"?
No guilt = innocent
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