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I find one lesson very hard for many of my brothers and sisters to learn..
That lesson is ..a quiet respectful and humble voice gets more attention for Him than a loud, boastful, selfrighteous and judgemental one does.
jmho
And how many souls have been won by quietly sitting by and watching people drown themselves in sin and lose their eternal life and not a word is ever spoken of Jesus? How are they supposed to know about HIM if no one tells them? Sorry, I don't agree with your methods any more than you agree with mine. Your method is not a method at all, imo. It's a way to have everyone like you.
This is not about being liked and to see how many friends you can make. We're talking about an eternity either spent in heaven or hell. I choose to do all I can to help others find the truth. I don't know but I don't feel a moderator should be calling a poster or posters loud, boastful, self-righteous and judgmental. I sure get called out for saying things like that.
SisterKat, now you are one Christian that I could possibly get along with and wouldn't mind sitting down at a table to have a discussion with over a cup of coffee, you and others like you can be a benefit to your religion of tolerance.
The funny thing about this is that it seems to be the Universalists that are tolerant.
Yet the first post states clearly that universalism is evil and a doctrine of the devil..
This is not about being liked and to see how many friends you can make. We're talking about an eternity either spent in heaven or hell. I choose to do all I can to help others find the truth. I don't know but I don't feel a moderator should be calling a poster or posters loud, boastful, self-righteous and judgmental. I sure get called out for saying things like that.
Miss Blue identified and singled out NO ONE . . . but if the shoe fits . . . 1 Corinthians 4:5 (New Living Translation)
5 So don’t make judgments about anyone ahead of time—before the Lord returns. For he will bring our darkest secrets to light and will reveal our private motives. Then God will give to each one whatever praise is due.
I really wish you could step back a moment and read how your words sound to people other than yourself. You say things like you're trying to "get christians to FIGHT the 'good' FIGHT", like you are told...told by WHOM, exactly?!? And that universalists are fervent, relentless and repetative...well I never said that they weren't. But so what if they are? If they outwardly admitted that they were on some sort of "mission" to "fight" christians I'd say the exact same thing to them as I am to you right now. Sure, fight as you will and take anyone who is willing to follow like a sheep with you. But please, at least be honest in your intentions. You are trying to create a war, you don't want to save or help anyone. If you did, you wouldn't have posted such a topic- much less in the manner you did. And as well with obvious HATRED AND ANGER- read your own words and the intent with, and by which they were written.
I'm just repeating what the Bible teaches, that's all. If you were a Christian then you would know that the BIBLE tells us to "fight the good fight". So you're saying it's ok for universalists to be fervent, relentless and repetitive but it's not ok for me to use the same tactics to save eternal lives? Hmmm. Christians ARE on a mission....a mission to dispel lies and try and protect others from getting caught up in them because they will send them straight to hell. I think that's a pretty noble cause. How dare you say I don't want to save or help anyone....that's a lie. There's no hatred or anger in anything I have EVER posted. Maybe holy anger at times, but that is within my rights as a Christian. How is it you think you know me just by some typed words? You don't. I think you may have a problem with any Christian who is on fire for the Lord, plain and simple. You should try it, it's the only way to live. Literally.
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You are right, I am not a christian. But I was raised christian, and have plenty of knowledge about the religion you claim to be a part of. And I do please ask that, irregardless of your obvious distaste for those that don't believe the same as you, that you refrain from making assumptions about others regarding what or what not they are "missing"...specifically, you should know that I happen to love and admire Jesus christ and am not in the least bit "missing" him. I just don't happen to believe some of the same things you do about him- one thing being that he would ever encourage anyone to be pro-active in condemning any other person for what they believe is the path to god. The jesus I know and respect would plant seeds of kindness and hope that they grow and then let things be. And he'd be all about gathering up people in a means to promote good, kindness, and well being, not to shun or judge others that he THINKS are wrong. THINK being the operative word here...
Oh I see, you have issues. It's not with me, but with some bad childhood experiences and you're just taking it out on me. Well anything that you could tell me about how horrible it was I can probably one up you on. That's no excuse to reject God. You have to find your own truth and stop blaming others for your disbelief. Because guess what? That's not going to fly on judgment day. There is ONE path to God, and that is through Jesus Christ. But we are also warned of the satanic lies that will be rampant in the last days and universalism is one of them. We are told to fight these lies and because I believe the Bible to be innerant then I have to do what God says. How do you know I don't plant seeds of kindness and hope in my life? This forum is not life....but there are a lot of people who read it and will be deceived into thinking that they will be "saved" no matter what they do!! I don't "think" universalism is wrong....I KNOW it is. It's very serious and needs to be treated as such
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Heresy and lies...wow, that's pretty harsh. And I can guarantee you that there are many people who believe that that is exactly what you are preaching. But if you are not hearing any nasty words thrown at you, and aren't made to feel stupid or bad about what you believe just remember it is not because people do not agree with you, it is because some people have integrity and respect- both for themselves, as well as you and everyone else- and they prefer to remain silent in order to maintain that integrity and respect. I, sadly, am too selfish and too outspoken to remain in that category, though I do my best to speak my words with due diligence and as much respect as I can.
IT IS HERESY AND LIES!! It's twisting of God's words beyond recognition. I am not "preaching".....I'm typing on a discussion board. You may not see the importance of this because you are not a Christian but you are here for some reason and I think that reason is that you know deep down in your heart that I am right. You know that being raised a Christian was right and you now have it very wrong. It's not about how you or anyone else perceives me, don't you understand that? I'm not here to infuriate or debate, I'm here to tell the truth and that is unacceptable to you and lots of other people because it's unpleasant to hear. The truth is that Jesus Christ is waiting for you too but you keep rejecting Him.
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Hypocrisy...do you KNOW how everyone that you speak of behaves when they're outside of church? Probably not. Nobody does. What people do when nobody is looking is a sure sign of their character so, in that regard, I am hoping that you are a completely different person in your private life than you are here. And the fact that I am not christian is NOT why I do not understand what you're talking about, nor why I don't get why you're on this mad crusade to nix all universalists. Even if someone believed in things the exact way I do but wanted to condemn others who did not- I wouldn't understand that either. That's simply not a humane, polite, nor honorable way to conduct oneself- plus it's a big waste of time.
Did I say everyone was a hypocrite? No, I didn't. And yes I do know how people behave outside of church. It's not pretty. I guess you didn't spend the first half of your life being dragged around to every denomination under the sun and seeing these things first hand. I ran for a long time too but praise God he didn't give up on me!! Stop running Helio, because ultimately you'll have no where to hide. You can't run from God.
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Ilene, as much as you love jesus it seems that you have a lot more in common with the people who crucified him than you do with HIM. And I am not trying to be mean in saying that, I am just trying to help you look at the harm you are doing with your judgement calls and accusations. LET IT GO! If you really think someone is going to hell simply because they don't believe EXACTLY what you do- then have at it, but can you kindly stop with the nasty devil and hell stuff as if you actually LIKE that we're all gonna be victims of the fiery pit. Please, you fight your "good fight" on your own, in your own community. Or if you MUST do it on here then send all your christian universalist hating friends private messages and then you can do this whole op covert and noone will see it coming. It'll be just like the Third Reich or the Salem Witch trials...
Now that's a harsh thing to say! I do love Jesus and I would give anything to go back in time and see Him and hear His voice. There is no harm being done here....just the truth being told. If it harms you it's because the Holy Spirit is working in you, tugging at you and you should listen Helio. I can say or do anything I wish here...you have no control over that. Sorry to tell you but you don't even have to participate in my threads but I wish you still would because it means you are still being drawn by the Holy Spirit. Everyone who participates is being drawn, you think it's out of anger and disgust that you came here but it's so much bigger than you or that. Anyone who speaks against the lie of universalism is a loving, caring person who just wants to see as many people go to heaven as possible. It doesn't get any more loving than that.
And how many souls have been won by quietly sitting by and watching people drown themselves in sin and lose their eternal life and not a word is ever spoken of Jesus? How are they supposed to know about HIM if no one tells them? Sorry, I don't agree with your methods any more than you agree with mine. Your method is not a method at all, imo. It's a way to have everyone like you.
This is not about being liked and to see how many friends you can make. We're talking about an eternity either spent in heaven or hell. I choose to do all I can to help others find the truth. I don't know but I don't feel a moderator should be calling a poster or posters loud, boastful, self-righteous and judgmental. I sure get called out for saying things like that.
The funny thing about this is that it seems to be the Universalists that are tolerant.
Yet the first post states clearly that universalism is evil and a doctrine of the devil..
Interesting.
Ya interesting... Jesus wasn't very tolerant with the Pharisees, teachers of the law who did everything they could to oppose him.
Ya interesting....Jesus wasn't very tolerant of the devil, misquoting God's word, rebuking him, sending them into pigs.
Ya interesting....when Jesus will someday not tolerate the unbeliever, death, sin, devil and hell itself and completely remove them from his presence
Ya interesting..... how those who refuse to believe their own eyes even if a guy builds a enormous boat nowhere near water, refusing to believe the warning of God's upcoming intolerance of evil, resulting only a few being saved.
Ya interesting... Jesus wasn't very tolerant with the Pharisees, teachers of the law who did everything they could to oppose him.
Ya interesting....Jesus wasn't very tolerant of the devil, misquoting God's word, rebuking him, sending them into pigs.
Ya interesting....when Jesus will someday not tolerate the unbeliever, death, sin, devil and hell itself and completely remove them from his presence
Ya interesting..... how those who refuse to believe their own eyes even if a guy builds a enormous boat nowhere near water, refusing to believe the warning of God's upcoming intolerance of evil, resulting only a few being saved.
a loving, caring person who just wants to see as many people go to heaven as possible. It doesn't get any more loving than that.
That's why I've never called you unloving - just misguided. Considering your belief in eternal torment I guess it is best to keep the threat of hell card in the deck just in case the love of God angle doesn't work out.
Personally - I believe that it is the love of God which leads people to have a change of heart.
From my perspective - those who are motivated to serve God in order to save their own butts from hell must not know God in any real depth.
What kind of 'love' needs threats of harm/death to bring about an intimate relationship?
I think we all know the answer to that.
Ya interesting... Jesus wasn't very tolerant with the Pharisees, teachers of the law who did everything they could to oppose him.
Ya interesting....Jesus wasn't very tolerant of the devil, misquoting God's word, rebuking him, sending them into pigs.
Ya interesting....when Jesus will someday not tolerate the unbeliever, death, sin, devil and hell itself and completely remove them from his presence
Ya interesting..... how those who refuse to believe their own eyes even if a guy builds a enormous boat nowhere near water, refusing to believe the warning of God's upcoming intolerance of evil, resulting only a few being saved.
Ya interesting ...... history repeats itself
Ya Kat.... very interesting
Amen Twin Spin! All this talk of tolerance is just that....talk. Nowhere does the Bible say we should be tolerant or tip toe around heresies just so we don't "hurt someone's feelings".
Amen Twin Spin! All this talk of tolerance is just that....talk. Nowhere does the Bible say we should be tolerant or tip toe around heresies just so we don't "hurt someone's feelings".
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jmho
