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Unie's are classic at it, and like to add to it as well, plus removing the scripture from its context repetitively, distorting the fundamentals of the word of God. You should be careful who you associate yourself with.
Pretries are the best at it of course though. They twist scripture all over the place stick words in when they feel like it ignore passages and sensible translations. They make prophecy out to be a joke and God out to be a monster. They torture babies in their free time... Really I'm tired of this crap. Don't just throw out a bunch of attacks, it's ridiculous.
Besides that, I have no problem being associated with the group that makes God out to be too loving.
How do you know he did not choose the pharisees ? , have you read Acts chapter 2 , did you know the apostle Paul was a pharisee ?
I didn't mean all pharisees, but the ones in Matthew 12:22–32. When he talked about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, he was talking about those pharisees who had said Jesus drove out the demon with the power of Satan. He didn't say that they will not be saved just because their words, but because he knew their hearts and he knew they had absolutely no interest in salvation or forgiveness. Jesus knew they were not meant to be saved, and he knew that about Judas when he said 'it would have been better if he had not been born'.
And yet He specifically asked His Father to forgive the men who were nailing his hands and feet to the cross. Why? Because they knew not what the did.
It looks like maybe His mercy may very well extend to somewhere far in excess of 25% of the world's population.
He said 'today you will be with me in paradise, only to one person that day, and that person had asked for forgiveness'. It was the person crucified next to him. As for the rest, yes he said 'forgive them', and that opens the door for salvation, but it is not automatic, as you can clearly see in dozens of places in the Bible. It requires action from your part too.
After his Crucifiction, the door is open for salvation, but most people turn down the invitation.
I didn't mean all pharisees, but the ones in Matthew 12:22–32. When he talked about the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, he was talking about those pharisees who had said Jesus drove out the demon with the power of Satan. He didn't say that they will not be saved just because their words, but because he knew their hearts and he knew they had absolutely no interest in salvation or forgiveness. Jesus knew they were not meant to be saved, and he knew that about Judas when he said 'it would have been better if he had not been born'.
To assume that Jesus knew they were not meant to be saved has you put it is rather a big statement , especially when your assumption is based on them rejecting Jesus at that time , how many people do you know that accepted Jesus the very first time they heard the good news ?, i know for certain i didn't .
He said 'today you will be with me in paradise, only to one person that day, and that person had asked for forgiveness'. It was the person crucified next to him. As for the rest, yes he said 'forgive them', and that opens the door for salvation, but it is not automatic, as you can clearly see in dozens of places in the Bible. It requires action from your part too.
Trust me, I most definitely do not believe it is automatic, and I am 100% convinced that it requires action on our part. I think you may have misinterpreted my post.
To assume that Jesus knew they were not meant to be saved has you put it is rather a big statement , especially when your assumption is based on them rejecting Jesus at that time , how many people do you know that accepted Jesus the very first time they heard the good news ?, i know for certain i didn't .
You don't have to assume, when the Bible says "he knew their hearts" and that "they would not be forgiven in this life, or next".
But in the other hand, yes of course Jesus knows who will be saved. He talkes about "his select" and "those who are given to him" continually. For example John 6:37 says "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out"
"All that the Father gives me", means that some are given and some are not.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-07-2010 at 11:26 AM..
Trust me, I most definitely do not believe it is automatic, and I am 100% convinced that it requires action on our part. I think you may have misinterpreted my post.
Didn't you imply that when Jesus said "forgive them for they do no know what they do" it means that the people were universally forgiven? If not, then I did indeed miss your point.
Where do you get that wisdom of men = logic. Logic was given by God, without it we couldn't understand anything.
Also you said:
Man does not reason with God
Yet Job desired to reason with God and God desires we reason with him.
And before you did commit a logical fallacy called either/or, apparently you don't even know what that is as it is indisputable that you committed it.
Also, if we cannot reason, then how are we to know if we are wrong or not? Your faith is blind.
You are correct Job desired to reason and then God replied to him and Job and nothing to say. I suggest you read it again. You clearly missed God's reply. Or were you at the foundation of the world?
The reasoning of right and wrong do not matter with God. It is not a matter of what we think is right or wrong. He clearly has shown what is right or wrong. We did not give him anything that made him determine it. He did it of his own accord.
You can bang this drum all day, but man does not reason with God in salvation or anything else. It is by God's reason not ours that all things happen. Keep clinging to the logical fallacy arguement. Im sure you think it makes sense. Christians know better.
No he didn't that's just how you want to interpret it.
You prove in this statement you want to believe something that is not there and will rigidly stick to it to prove you are right. At best you think you are right and at worst you can accept you are wrong. There is no matter of interpretation in his reply. As he is of Christ he knows what he speaks.
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