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What I'm trying to get at Legoman is there are people that want nothing to do with the christian god. People that are atheists and people who are of a different religion which is opposed to christianity. (Islam???) How is the christian "God" doing them a favor by making them spend eternity with him?
There are also christians who fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin. Why would they fear they committed it if they are going to be saved anyway? Why would there even be an "unpardonable sin" if God is going to save everyone anyway?
I feel that most of the people who are voting "God will save everyone" are looking at the alternative as eternal punishment/torment in Hell and feel sorry for anybody that goes there but I am hoping to get people who don't look at Hell that way and feel "Hell" might just be annhilation or something other than eternal punishment/torment. Or if they believe in the eternal punishment/torment theory they feel people who go there actually deserve it. (The most vile/wicked)
Does it matter if I believe in "God"? I don't, but if I'm constantly being told that I must accept Jesus as my saviour and then find out that Christians believe everybody is going to be saved anyway regardless of their belief/un-belief why should I/we cange my/our lifestyle to suit their/your desires?
To state that 100% is going to heaven is calling Jesus a liar.
I don't believe 100% of me is to endure God's judgment - that makes scripture true. The carnal nature (all doers of evil) damned, and God has His desire (all men to be saved).
What I'm trying to get at Legoman is there are people that want nothing to do with the christian god. People that are atheists and people who are of a different religion which is opposed to christianity. (Islam???) How is the christian "God" doing them a favor by making them spend eternity with him?
There are also christians who fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin. Why would they fear they committed it if they are going to be saved anyway? Why would there even be an "unpardonable sin" if God is going to save everyone anyway?
I feel that most of the people who are voting "God will save everyone" are looking at the alternative as eternal punishment/torment in Hell and feel sorry for anybody that goes there but I am hoping to get people who don't look at Hell that way and feel "Hell" might just be annhilation or something other than eternal punishment/torment. Or if they believe in the eternal punishment/torment theory they feel people who go there actually deserve it. (The most vile/wicked)
Does it matter if I believe in "God"? I don't, but if I'm constantly being told that I must accept Jesus as my saviour and then find out that Christians believe everybody is going to be saved anyway regardless of their belief/un-belief why should I/we cange my/our lifestyle to suit their/your desires?
"As a man soweth so shall he reap”is as true as is the fact that the sun shines upon the just and the unjust alike.
"As a man soweth so shall he reap”is as true as is the fact that the sun shines upon the just and the unjust alike.
I don't exactly get what you're saying SisterKat. Maybe because I am looking at your statement about the sun shining on the just and unjust alike in two different ways.
I look at it as a positive (sun is warm and comforting) and I see it as a negative , at least to the unjust. (sun is the light of the world so everything that is done is known)
Man cannot of himself abate one jot or tittle of the penalties, but must pay “to the last farthing".
I personally believe that one can repent their sins. Turn to God in Love and Prayer and earnestly desire to change their bad ways. When one does turn to God, believes in him, seeks him and repents for his wrongdoings, sins can be lessened and eradicated. We are not perfect however, none of us are. When there are times in our life when we put God on the back burner, that is when sin is more likely to occur. When you seek Him, feel him, and because of faith know that he is with you…the desire to sin is minimized. This is a fact for myself personally.
I believe those that live negative life styles will suffer in darkness, they shall reap what they sow, they shall pay to the last farthing. On the other hand, I believe that God will not let souls suffer in darkness forever.
Most Christians believe in either hell and/or reaping what you sow….so we try our best to follow his Word to avoid any kind of darkness.
Look at two separate people.....one living as a Christian.....One a thief...... the sun shines equally on both people....both people will equally be accountable for how they live their lives. Enlightenment can happen to anyone.
I don't believe 100% of me is to endure God's judgment - that makes scripture true. The carnal nature (all doers of evil) damned, and God has His desire (all men to be saved).
Are you saying that He won't have His desires?
to the bold: exactly!
I think there is just a misunderstanding that is present that people don't realize that all of the verses that have to do with the "wicked being destroyed" the "the wicked shall perish", etc. we are ALL part of this.
That within us that is NON-LOVE is perishing. When you cast judgement on all those sinners around you... it always makes me almost laugh inside because brothers and sisters... you are casting JUDGEMENT ON YOURSELF right along with those you judge. Judge not lest ye be judged. You judge your neighbor, you are judging yourself. Because ALL have both MEN inside of them. All have the carnal man within that is perishing.
And you rapture folks...
two men in a field, one is taken... the other is left behind..
hmmm. That's not BOB the sinner and JOHN the saint in a field. It's not two different human beings. It's YOU and your carnal nature. Perhaps there is some further meaning beyond this, but this is definitely a major way that I see that verse.
Someone mentioned about not living how you want or that it doesn't matter or whatever if all are saved. You can do whatever you want... but it's like you telling your child "Son, you can keep walking into that forest fire if you want... but I love you and I'm telling you that the closer you go, the more you keep walking that path towards the forest... it's not going to be good for you... you'll start to breathe in smoke, your face will become covered with soot, you'll start to cough and gag, keep going, your going to become injured".
It's about love. The two commands are about LOVE.
ALL of the law HANGS on these two commands.
Where LOVE rules, the LAW dissipates. Do you know why and do you understand this? It's because WHERE LOVE is, THERE IS NO NEED for the law, because there is NO LONGER ANY EVIL TO RESTRAIN.
LOVE pushes out the NEED for the LAW.
It's so SIMPLE!!
IT truly is.
Mankind makes it difficult and confusing.
It is NOT.
AT ALL.
"love God with all of your heart" - this command, I believe is put into place so that you will seek truth and GET to truth. You can't possibly love some freak sick god that will torment and torture people. It's IMPOSSIBLE to love a being who would torture your loved ones for all eternity, these neighbors GOD tells you to LOVE as yourself. The second command, love your neighbor as yourself.
When you start to see ALL of mankind, and ALL of His creation, the animals, the lesser creatures etc. as your neighbor, then you're starting to finally GET IT. So yes, you can do whatever you want, but EVENTUALLY the NON-LOVE within you is going to be refined away.
Living how you want... what is that? How do you want to live? There are many things that SEEM good on the outside, but lead to nothing but HEARTACHE and DESPAIR. God loves you and wants you to prosper. (no, we're not talking about money here or material things) prosper in your heart. He wants your HEART to prosper. When you love yourself, this creation that God created that is YOU, you respect yourself and want to honor yourself, and keep yourself from harm in any way. When you love God, TRULY love Him...this is possible when you realize just how GOOD He really is. Beyond your wildest imagination. When you realize how good He really is, and not this idiotic sicko god that mankind has come up with from their carnal NON-LOVING imagination, the love in your heart really does expand and your love for others grows unbelievably. The whole point is love. Love is the MOST POWERFUL thing in this universe. People act like it's some wishy washy little emotion... all flowery and butterflies and flimsy. That is why there is so much confusion. GOD IS LOVE.
LOVE created this UNIVERSE.
Sin is that which is NON-LOVE.
NON-LOVE is what is perishing in our hearts.
ALL of our hearts.
ALL will eventually LOVE God and love each other willingly and joyously.
peace.
Last edited by .sparrow.; 02-06-2010 at 11:56 AM..
What I'm trying to get at Legoman is there are people that want nothing to do with the christian god. People that are atheists and people who are of a different religion which is opposed to christianity. (Islam???) How is the christian "God" doing them a favor by making them spend eternity with him?
There are also christians who fear that they have committed the unpardonable sin. Why would they fear they committed it if they are going to be saved anyway? Why would there even be an "unpardonable sin" if God is going to save everyone anyway?
I feel that most of the people who are voting "God will save everyone" are looking at the alternative as eternal punishment/torment in Hell and feel sorry for anybody that goes there but I am hoping to get people who don't look at Hell that way and feel "Hell" might just be annhilation or something other than eternal punishment/torment. Or if they believe in the eternal punishment/torment theory they feel people who go there actually deserve it. (The most vile/wicked)
Does it matter if I believe in "God"? I don't, but if I'm constantly being told that I must accept Jesus as my saviour and then find out that Christians believe everybody is going to be saved anyway regardless of their belief/un-belief why should I/we cange my/our lifestyle to suit their/your desires?
Amen.... there is no reason to trust God if one is going to be saved anyway!
That is why universalism is so deceiving and a dangerous teaching! Because it is of man's interpretation w/out the Spirit giving discernment of the truth within the word of God, leading other's astray !!
They will throw scripture at you, using every form of manipulation one can image and it is either twisted to mean what their fleshly appetites want it to say, they take it out of context to support their false interpretation, and isolate the scripture, not cross referencing the scripture w/scripture or read the whole chapter, or taking scripture before or after to get the spiritual understanding of what God intended it in how He gave it to be properly understood.
Yet, the most important part of it all is their is no witness of the Holy Spirit in any of it or those who profess universalism.
Totally agree with twin.spin post....that is the reality !!
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
It is the misinterpretation of the Bible or worse.....it is denying God his right to hold unbelief accountable. To state that 100% is going to heaven is calling Jesus a liar.
Sorry, but no I didn't not vote in your poll as I have no idea what the percentage of those who will or would be saved and I would be foolish even to try to speculate what only God would know.
We are told in the scripture that..... Luke 13:23-28 23. And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, 24. "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25. "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ' Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, ' I do not know where you are from.' 26. "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; 27. and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.' 28". In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
Rev. 7:9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
I don't believe 100% of me is to endure God's judgment - that makes scripture true. The carnal nature (all doers of evil) damned, and God has His desire (all men to be saved).
Are you saying that He won't have His desires?
You will not endure God's wrath if a person has the correct faith in and about Jesus. John 3:36
This has nothing to do about His desires being unfulfilled. In fact, it is the very carnal nature that questions God's sovereignty to damn the evil doer, the unrepented, and the unbeliever. People who argue in favor of UR reject the truth of subjective justification and the accountability of unbelief and Jesus' authority to do so.
A person who remains in unbelief will recieve 100% God's judgement....for ever and ever. UR is not the truth.
Last edited by twin.spin; 02-06-2010 at 12:26 PM..
You will not endure God's wrath if a person has the correct faith in and about Jesus. John 3:36
This has nothing to do about His desires being unfulfilled. In fact, it is the very carnal nature that questions God's sovereignty to damn the evil doer, the unrepented, and the unbeliever. People who argue in favor of UR reject the truth of subjective justification and the accountability of unbelief and Jesus' authority to do so.
Amen.... there is no reason to trust God if one is going to be saved anyway!
That is why universalism is so deceiving and a dangerous teaching! Because it is of man's interpretation w/out the Spirit giving discernment of the truth within the word of God, leading other's astray !!
They will throw scripture at you, using every form of manipulation one can image and it is either twisted to mean what their fleshly appetites want it to say, they take it out of context to support their false interpretation, and isolate the scripture, not cross referencing the scripture w/scripture or read the whole chapter, or taking scripture before or after to get the spiritual understanding of what God intended it in how He gave it to be properly understood.
Yet, the most important part of it all is their is no witness of the Holy Spirit in any of it or those who profess universalism.
Totally agree with twin.spin post....that is the reality !!
Sorry, but no I didn't not vote in your poll as I have no idea what the percentage of those who will or would be saved and I would be foolish even to try to speculate what only God would know.
We are told in the scripture that..... Luke 13:23-28 23. And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, 24. "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25. "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ' Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, ' I do not know where you are from.' 26. "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; 27. and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.' 28". In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.
Rev. 7:9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Can't rep but......you go Chic
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there is no reason to trust God if one is going to be saved anyway! 
