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Old 02-11-2010, 05:29 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,496,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
And where does your thinking come from? I doubt you had a vision of God, telling you everything He means. You're drawing conclusions from the same source I am... Bible.

Even Hitler thought (and wrote down) that he was acting according to God's will:
" I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator" - Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

Do you believe he was? Were his acts justified along the lines?
Scripture doesn't support Hitler's actions. Hitler was a enraged racist individual who manipulated the bible like so many others to do evil. He led himself and others to their doom. When studying the scripture, when understanding it correctly and having the Holy Spirit dwell in you puts the world and its problems in a whole new perspective and you won't follow the Hitlers, Koresh, Jim Jones and others
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,703,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Scripture doesn't support Hitler's actions. Hitler was a enraged racist individual who manipulated the bible like so many others to do evil. He led himself and others to their doom. When studying the scripture, when understanding it correctly and having the Holy Spirit dwell in you puts the world and its problems in a whole new perspective and you won't follow the Hitlers, Koresh, Jim Jones and others
Let us hope someone doesn't pick up and add Mein Kempf as another book in the scripture. After all, his actions were consistent with many of the stories I see in the Old Testament.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,102,552 times
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Yet in the OT, we see that God was using the acts of evil kings to bring about (His) higher purpose - that sometimes took thousands of years for man to realize.

Doesn't scripture plainly tell us that He works all things after the council of His own will? Or will someone say that I'm taking that out of context? I don't care, it's either true or it's not.
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:45 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,496,493 times
Reputation: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Let us hope someone doesn't pick up and add Mein Kempf as another book in the scripture. After all, his actions were consistent with many of the stories I see in the Old Testament.
again it's interpretation. Those stories in the OT were for the Jews not the gentiles. We learn from it by understanding God's nature, will etc... but we do not practice it. There are no prophets today because if there are are then by law if they get one prophecy wrong we will have to kill them.

You must truely study and understand scripture.
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Old 02-11-2010, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,703,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
again it's interpretation. Those stories in the OT were for the Jews not the gentiles. We learn from it by understanding God's nature, will etc... but we do not practice it. There are no prophets today because if there are are then by law if they get one prophecy wrong we will have to kill them.

You must truely study and understand scripture.
I've studied and understand the scripture just fine. I just don't take it at its face value for those reasons. What I see in those stories is human nature at full display, nothing divine. Take Psalm 137:8-9 for example...
Quote:
8O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. 9Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Now, I can't see God as asking someone that it will bring happiness to smash someone's little child against the rocks. I see human emotion at display, looking at eye for an eye. Divinity will be quite different, way above most of us can imagine much less "walk the talk". For that, let me quote Mathew 5:38-39...
Quote:
You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth'.39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Now you know, why I call myself a Christian. It has nothing to do with revenge and hatred spewed in OT. It has to do with the way Jesus thought, preached and walked. His ways are unlike any human would dare. You and I are more likely to follow the ways depicted in Psalms, than to be more like Christ. And that is the truth.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,650,281 times
Reputation: 17805
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You can believe as you wish. I am stating how it looks to ME.

Do you not believe that there will be more people in hell than in heaven?

Doesn't that mean that God's wrath is more prevalent than his Mercy in your view?

If God is all powerful then couldn't he snap his fingers and make all men clean enough to enter his presence? After all it is his presence. What is stopping him from doing that if he wills that all men come to him? You seem to think, IMO, that this is too great a task for him or that he does not wish to go against human will even though he condemns that will as "of the flesh" right?

So which is it? Does God make it so that his will is carried out and all men come to him however that may be, or does God simply want only those who revere him of their own power?

Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
ungodly or asebes in the greek is from a (as a negative particle) and a presumed derivative of sebomai; irreverent, i.e. (by extension) impious or wicked -- ungodly (man).

Who is it that Christ died for? The unbeliever. THE WICKED

John 12:31 "Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

The lord says that he will draw all men to himself. Do you believe that?
You know katjonjj....you have made up your mind in all this....
//www.city-data.com/forum/12867029-post95.html

I find no reason to answer your questions! You have asked every believer on this board the same thing over and over again.
I have been posting for over 2 years in this forum and I am sure you have read my post on many of occasions to what I believe and have answered to other's.

My post in this thread pretty much sums it up.......
//www.city-data.com/forum/12857171-post43.html

......I don't mean any of this to be sarcastic, but sincerely it really doesn't matter what it looks like to you or anyone because it is God to whom all of us will answer to one day, some sooner then other's and my heart trusts Him completely in what ever He says my heart agrees.
He has shown me great and wonderful things that for me to doubt any thing that is written in His word is foolishness.

Listen you are a smart woman and I have seen your kindness yet I sometimes wonder if that your studies have not become a stumbling block to you as for many other's in this forum. We walk by faith, but by sight.

There seems to be such a restlessness and unsettledness with those who hold to the universalism belief or any false teaching.
In the last 2 years I have seen many uni's or whomever come and go with the same argument like they are trying to convince themselves of what they hold too.
There is no peace..... just this constant turmoil and debating, arguing, battling over and over what they believe trying to prove and yet really are they trusting God in all that they claim with this constant turmoil and proving within!
Anyway..............

I am so thankful that God has given me a peace and a faith in Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior, in all that He choose to do. Whether I understand it or not He is God and I don't have to try to figure it out or even fret about life because I know He has all things in His hands.

In all the days since He came into my life all He has ever asked of my life is ....." Do you believe?" My heart answers each and every morning yes, Lord, show me your way! And He takes my hand and guides me into all truth that is needed in that day.
And you know what? He has never failed nor forsaken me yet.

Each day He tarries.... He gives new mercies to trust and the faith to believe in Him in all things that this day will bring, good or bad.
He always gives me the faith in my heart to endure and rejoice in that He is my God...

Have a wonderful day....katjonjj !
My prayers are that each and every soul would come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and that by faith in Him they will trust and rest in all that He is and does.

Blessings.....
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,463,016 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
You know katjonjj....you have made up your mind in all this....
//www.city-data.com/forum/12867029-post95.html
I make a comment on how God is everywhere at once.. which is a tenet of you faith, right? I do have my mind made up. You can't have God as omnipresent and say he is not in hell (assuming there is one) or the lake of fire.

Quote:
I find no reason to answer your questions! You have asked every believer on this board the same thing over and over again.
I have been posting for over 2 years in this forum and I am sure you have read my post on many of occasions to what I believe and have answered to other's.
So really you believe it is useless to research and prove what you say? It is pretty simple actually. Your idea of faith is getting in the way of being a true steward of the gospel. That is my problem with you not feeling it is worth talking about. Study to show yourself approved, or stick your money under the ground and when the master asks what you did with his gospel you can say that you held it safely within you rather than answer to a few questions. But it is your choice.. you can do whatever your heart desires.

Quote:
My post in this thread pretty much sums it up.......
//www.city-data.com/forum/12857171-post43.html
Hopefully you realize this wasn't directed toward me. The most disturbing part is that you start by saying:
Quote:
Well SisterKat......Your god and its divine love, peace, is not the God of the Scripture......the Mighty God of all Creation! So therefore I will never know it or desire it, let alone pray to it.
The god you so talk about and using his new age philosophy is nothing but the father of lies who blinds this world in its sin of unbelief from the truth of God. This god you speak so highly of is a deceptive god, creating and giving those the desire to walk in rebellion, against God's written word.
Yet don't you realize that saying that God is really the devil or father of lies is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.. you know that unforgivable sin..

Now according to my beliefs there is no unforgivable sin as Jesus already redeemed the ungodly.. but in your belief this could send you directly to hell if you are wrong! Right?

So maybe it is worth looking into. Because if God can throw a 15 year old in hell for not believing in him while his murderer finds God in prison.... then he can just as easily throw you in this fiery pit...

Also, this post you show does nothing to answer the verses I posted and the point I made. Unless your objective was to say that "Uni's" aren't following God.. in which case you certainly made your point.

Quote:
......I don't mean any of this to be sarcastic, but sincerely it really doesn't matter what it looks like to you or anyone because it is God to whom all of us will answer to one day, some sooner then other's and my heart trusts Him completely in what ever He says my heart agrees.
He has shown me great and wonderful things that for me to doubt any thing that is written in His word is foolishness.
I just showed you where it is written in his word that contradicts your belief in eternal damnation or annihilation.. whichever you may believe. (I can't keep track of which one everyone is sometimes.)

Quote:
Listen you are a smart woman and I have seen your kindness yet I sometimes wonder if that your studies have not become a stumbling block to you as for many other's in this forum. We walk by faith, but by sight.
There can be no stumbling block in studying the word of God. In fact, it has brought me closer to my fellow man and God, so I know it is good and edifying.

Quote:
There seems to be such a restlessness and unsettledness with those who hold to the universalism belief or any false teaching.
In the last 2 years I have seen many uni's or whomever come and go with the same argument like they are trying to convince themselves of what they hold too.
There is no peace..... just this constant turmoil and debating, arguing, battling over and over what they believe trying to prove and yet really are they trusting God in all that they claim with this constant turmoil and proving within!
Anyway..............
What you perceive as restlessness is truly a wish to see others accept the free gift of God... the love for your neighbor and yourself. Have you ever been an unbeliever? I have not. I don't remember anytime when I believed there was not a God. So when you see an unbeliever and tell them they deserve to go to hell for their sins.. how do you think that makes them feel? Was that truly the message you think Jesus gave for us to spread?
What you see as unrest is just the push from God to share the good news. The bible is clear on several things that an ETer must overlook. God being omnipresent is one of those things.

Quote:
I am so thankful that God has given me a peace and a faith in Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior, in all that He choose to do. Whether I understand it or not He is God and I don't have to try to figure it out or even fret about life because I know He has all things in His hands.
I think it is mighty selfish of you to be at peace while telling others of their eternal fate if they don't conform to your belief system. How can you live for one moment believing that your God of love and justice will punish people after death for crimes committed during life while still having consequences for sins in life? Double punishment? Is that Just?

Meanwhile, most Uni's feel so strongly about this that it is unacceptable for anyone to be in hell.. so much so that it would be my wish to give up my belief in God to another so that I may take their place in this torture chamber..

Quote:
In all the days since He came into my life all He has ever asked of my life is ....." Do you believe?" My heart answers each and every morning yes, Lord, show me your way! And He takes my hand and guides me into all truth that is needed in that day.
And you know what? He has never failed nor forsaken me yet.
But I thought the criteria for being guided and not forsaken was belief in him? Do you think perhaps that he knows more about you and others than you realize? That perhaps he doesn't need some ETer saying that he is not the same god as theirs and will punish them forever because they believe in UR even though they pray to him and believe in him?

I'm sad that you think that way.. How detrimental is that thought to your relationship with others?

Quote:
Each day He tarries.... He gives new mercies to trust and the faith to believe in Him in all things that this day will bring, good or bad.
He always gives me the faith in my heart to endure and rejoice in that He is my God...
I am glad you are happy with him. I wonder though why you don't wish that for others? But rather than that you wish for all the ungodly to be punished? How does that NOT sound selfish? I'm happy and you are headed for destruction, is your version of the gospel?

Quote:
Have a wonderful day....katjonjj !
My prayers are that each and every soul would come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and that by faith in Him they will trust and rest in all that He is and does.

Blessings.....
But aren't your prayers misplaced? I thought according to your belief, that it is the person who has to initiate the action of believing.. so what good would praying do if God is not able to save them because of their own free will? So do you pray that God will allow them to accept him? or what? I am curious to know how one prays for someone to come to God and yet denies that God will do anything to make them believe..

You have a wonderful day as well... Perhaps you can answer this post as I am sure it is all worthy of your response, right?
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Old 02-12-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,384,970 times
Reputation: 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I make a comment on how God is everywhere at once.. which is a tenet of you faith, right? I do have my mind made up. You can't have God as omnipresent and say he is not in hell (assuming there is one) or the lake of fire.

So really you believe it is useless to research and prove what you say? It is pretty simple actually. Your idea of faith is getting in the way of being a true steward of the gospel. That is my problem with you not feeling it is worth talking about. Study to show yourself approved, or stick your money under the ground and when the master asks what you did with his gospel you can say that you held it safely within you rather than answer to a few questions. But it is your choice.. you can do whatever your heart desires.

Hopefully you realize this wasn't directed toward me. The most disturbing part is that you start by saying:
Yet don't you realize that saying that God is really the devil or father of lies is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.. you know that unforgivable sin..

Now according to my beliefs there is no unforgivable sin as Jesus already redeemed the ungodly.. but in your belief this could send you directly to hell if you are wrong! Right?

So maybe it is worth looking into. Because if God can throw a 15 year old in hell for not believing in him while his murderer finds God in prison.... then he can just as easily throw you in this fiery pit...

Also, this post you show does nothing to answer the verses I posted and the point I made. Unless your objective was to say that "Uni's" aren't following God.. in which case you certainly made your point.

I just showed you where it is written in his word that contradicts your belief in eternal damnation or annihilation.. whichever you may believe. (I can't keep track of which one everyone is sometimes.)

There can be no stumbling block in studying the word of God. In fact, it has brought me closer to my fellow man and God, so I know it is good and edifying.

What you perceive as restlessness is truly a wish to see others accept the free gift of God... the love for your neighbor and yourself. Have you ever been an unbeliever? I have not. I don't remember anytime when I believed there was not a God. So when you see an unbeliever and tell them they deserve to go to hell for their sins.. how do you think that makes them feel? Was that truly the message you think Jesus gave for us to spread?
What you see as unrest is just the push from God to share the good news. The bible is clear on several things that an ETer must overlook. God being omnipresent is one of those things.

I think it is mighty selfish of you to be at peace while telling others of their eternal fate if they don't conform to your belief system. How can you live for one moment believing that your God of love and justice will punish people after death for crimes committed during life while still having consequences for sins in life? Double punishment? Is that Just?

Meanwhile, most Uni's feel so strongly about this that it is unacceptable for anyone to be in hell.. so much so that it would be my wish to give up my belief in God to another so that I may take their place in this torture chamber..

But I thought the criteria for being guided and not forsaken was belief in him? Do you think perhaps that he knows more about you and others than you realize? That perhaps he doesn't need some ETer saying that he is not the same god as theirs and will punish them forever because they believe in UR even though they pray to him and believe in him?

I'm sad that you think that way.. How detrimental is that thought to your relationship with others?

I am glad you are happy with him. I wonder though why you don't wish that for others? But rather than that you wish for all the ungodly to be punished? How does that NOT sound selfish? I'm happy and you are headed for destruction, is your version of the gospel?

But aren't your prayers misplaced? I thought according to your belief, that it is the person who has to initiate the action of believing.. so what good would praying do if God is not able to save them because of their own free will? So do you pray that God will allow them to accept him? or what? I am curious to know how one prays for someone to come to God and yet denies that God will do anything to make them believe..

You have a wonderful day as well... Perhaps you can answer this post as I am sure it is all worthy of your response, right?
I too have believed in God since I was 4 years old....I remember the day and there is not much I remember from that time in my life.

No one can deny our Love for our Father. No one can take away our loving relationship - Not any one

Many souls will find themselves in darkness when they think they will be in the light.

Great Post Kat!
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,463,016 times
Reputation: 1737
Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
I too have believed in God since I was 4 years old....I remember the day and there is not much I remember from that time in my life.

No one can deny our Love for our Father. No one can take away our loving relationship - Not any one

Many souls will find themselves in darkness when they think they will be in the light.

Great Post Kat!
Yes! I was 4 too. I remember my mom and the pastor trying to figure out if it was possible for a 4 year old to come to the knowledge of God.. and their verdict was NO (Pentecostal church and if they believe I was able to make that decision at 4 then there are alot of hell-bound 4 year olds..), so I was counted as not really saved.. But I remember it as if it were yesterday, the controversy that brought with it in such a hell-fire church.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:01 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,041,898 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yes! I was 4 too. I remember my mom and the pastor trying to figure out if it was possible for a 4 year old to come to the knowledge of God.. and their verdict was NO (Pentecostal church and if they believe I was able to make that decision at 4 then there are alot of hell-bound 4 year olds..), so I was counted as not really saved.. But I remember it as if it were yesterday, the controversy that brought with it in such a hell-fire church.
You troublemaker Kat
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