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How did they prevail, and what is your exegesis of this assumption?
[Matthew 16:13-19] (KJ)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus creates His Church and makes Peter it's head. Jesus says that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. That Church is the Catholic Church. Moderator cut: inappropriate statement If Luther and Calvin are correct, and the Catholic Church was spreading false teachings of Jesus Christ, then the gates of hell did indeed prevail against His Church. Hence, if Luther and Calvin are correct, Jesus was a liar, or just as bad, had no power over His Church.
I am going to stick with Jesus and His Church, the Catholic Church because that is the one Church that Jesus created for all time and just like He promised, is here for me and all mankind almost 2000 years later.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-13-2010 at 10:27 AM..
If Luther and Calvin are correct, then the Catholic Church was spreading false teachings of Jesus Christ, then the gates of hell did indeed prevail against His Church. Hence, if Luther and Calvin are correct, Jesus was a liar, or just as bad, had no power over His Church.
Did you see the question "what do you think the gates of hell are?"
Last edited by Miss Blue; 02-13-2010 at 10:28 AM..
Jesus was not taking about the Roman Catholic Church when those words were spoken from Matthew 16...... See The Catholic church took this scripture and used it as confession of faith for their survival in the world for Heaven which is not wrong........ The Church Jesus built his Church is not built on morter and stone of the earth, but on the Children of God he will build his Church,.. the Temple of the Holy Spirit, the New Creation, that way Jesus-es church will be hard to destroy when it can go anywhere on the earth, and his people do not have to go to Jerusalem to pray even after the second Coming of Jesus..... This Rock is the Rock of Christ,... Like the Rock of Horeb in the wilderness were Moses hit the Rock and a river of fresh water flowed out of soild rock a miracle from The Living God,,, represents the river of living water flowing out of the Rock of Christ who to annoited of this Rock of Christ,,,,,,, Jesus builds his Church, we are called to obey his commandment and do as he says.... and the power of the Name of Jesus Christ the devil can not preveil against it, for all power has been given to Jesus in Heaven and in the earth, so go a do it through Jesus.
If Luther and Calvin are right, then the gates of hell did indeed prevail against the Church that Jesus began. What say you?
Who....are Luther & Calvin??? Cartoon characters??? I have never even heard of them!!! I was raised in the Seventh Day Adventist Church in Stevensville,MI...My father was the Deacon there. and...I've also attended The Berrien County Baptist Church in Stevensville. Not to mention....Frequently watch Dr.Lester Summerall's beautiful sermons, Joyce Meyers Ministries & sometimes The 700 Club. I'm devoted to my daily Bible reading and listening to "Focus on the Family" hosted by Dr.James Dobson is one of my all-time favorites!!!
SO... I searched the index of my Bible...nothing...not even the word Catholic is in my Bible(S) You know were I had to go to get an answer?
THE INTERNET!!!! Google has an answer for the Calvin/Luther thing...
which I'd don't want to post something false & fake about the Lord...so everyone will have to look it up for themselves.
Matthew 16;18-19 does'nt say anything about the Catholic Church, Jesus Christ does not even mention the word Catholic to my knowledge in the entire Bible. OK ...I 'm getting it all now now ... juj has posted this whole entire thing here, because he feels that Matthew 16;18-19 says the Catholic church. Its a great thing to feel devoted to your religion, thats a wonderful thing!! But when you take a scripture thats does NOT say a single thing about a specific denomination, and tell others that it does... Its a LIE, you are taking your beliefS and telling others that the scriputure specifically states "The Catholic Church" which it does NOT.
Proverbs 6:16-19 These 6 things the Lord does hate, the 7th are an abomination unto him. A Proud Look, A Lying Tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood. Hearts that make evil plans,feet that be quick to do evil, a FALSE WITNESS THAT SPEAKEST LIES AND THOSE THAT SOWETH DISCORD AMONG BRETHREN.
Revelations 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and FALSE PROPHET are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever. Just a glimpse about what the Bible does specifically say about the false prophet.
[Matthew 16:13-19] (KJ)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus creates His Church and makes Peter it's head. Jesus says that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. That Church is the Catholic Church. Please don't argue otherwise, you'll just talking be out of your hinderlands with nothing to back it up. If Luther and Calvin are correct, and the Catholic Church was spreading false teachings of Jesus Christ, then the gates of hell did indeed prevail against His Church. Hence, if Luther and Calvin are correct, Jesus was a liar, or just as bad, had no power over His Church.
I am going to stick with Jesus and His Church, the Catholic Church because that is the one Church that Jesus created for all time and just like He promised, is here for me and all mankind almost 2000 years later.
Really?
Was it Peter or Peter's confession that Jesus was going "upon this rock" build his church?
If Peter then the RC is based on Satan.
Four verses later............Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus creates His Church and makes Peter it's head. Jesus says that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. That Church is the Catholic Church. Please don't argue otherwise, you'll just talking be out of your hinderlands with nothing to back it up. If Luther and Calvin are correct, and the Catholic Church was spreading false teachings of Jesus Christ, then the gates of hell did indeed prevail against His Church. Hence, if Luther and Calvin are correct, Jesus was a liar, or just as bad, had no power over His Church.
I am going to stick with Jesus and His Church, the Catholic Church because that is the one Church that Jesus created for all time and just like He promised, is here for me and all mankind almost 2000 years later.
Excuse me, nothing personal, but why is it "ok" to attack Calvin and Luther, then insist for us to not argue that the Catholic Church isn't the church Jesus started? So we are not to debate it? Just accept your opinion that those two guys were wrong, with no questions asked? Please explain...
Peter was not head of the church, Jesus was. (and still is) The "one church" Jesus created for all time is not the Catholic, Protestant, etc, but the sum total of all Christians, regardless of their denominational affiliation. Peter, according to the Bible, was Apostle to the circumcision (Jews), not the Gentiles (us). The Bible says Jesus was the stone (Cephas) that the builders rejected, and is now become the chief cornerstone. (head of the Church) Jesus was referring to Himself in Matthew 16:18, not Peter. And no, the gates of hell did not, and cannot, prevail over Him, or the church He started. So no, I don't believe Calvin and Luther called Him a liar.
Do a word study on the original languages that your scripture reference was written in, and the meaning thereof of each word...it may open your understanding...
All just IMO, of course...
Jesus was not taking about the Roman Catholic Church when those words were spoken from Matthew 16...... See The Catholic church took this scripture and used it as confession of faith for their survival in the world for Heaven which is not wrong........ The Church Jesus built his Church is not built on morter and stone of the earth, but on the Children of God he will build his Church,.. the Temple of the Holy Spirit, the New Creation, that way Jesus-es church will be hard to destroy when it can go anywhere on the earth, and his people do not have to go to Jerusalem to pray even after the second Coming of Jesus..... This Rock is the Rock of Christ,... Like the Rock of Horeb in the wilderness were Moses hit the Rock and a river of fresh water flowed out of soild rock a miracle from The Living God,,, represents the river of living water flowing out of the Rock of Christ who to annoited of this Rock of Christ,,,,,,, Jesus builds his Church, we are called to obey his commandment and do as he says.... and the power of the Name of Jesus Christ the devil can not preveil against it, for all power has been given to Jesus in Heaven and in the earth, so go a do it through Jesus.
Jesus's Church is not mortar. Correct. But it is a set of beliefs, doctrine, Devine Tradition along with Devine Scripture that are guarded by the Holy Spirit as proclaimed by Jesus, himself. Since Jesus gave the power to run his Church to Peter, thus Peter became it's head. Peter was the first pope, followed by Linus, then Cletus, then Clement, and so on. For the complete list, see: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: List of Popes
That same Authority given to the Catholic Church by Jesus still exists today. I guess rock can mean only one thing, huh? Jesus changed Simons name to Peter, Rock, for a reason. That is he built His Church on this Rock. Any other interpretation is pure bull. If you read early Church Fathers you will understand what they believed. They knew the head of the Church was in Rome with Peter. THEIR CORE DOCTRINES EXIST TODAY IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Go read them. Find out what they believed. You have been fed such anti-Catholic and self-promoting rhetoric about how your Church began. Unless your some form of Orthodox (Greek, Eastern, Coptic, etc.), your religion at the earliest began in the 16th century by a MAN. Most of the fundamentalist churches in America were created in the 19th Century by a MAN. You can either follow the doctrines of a man or follow the Holy Spirit protected doctrines associated with a Church that was created by Jesus Christ, himself. Your call. Free will and all. Of course, that doesn't apply if your a Calvinist. Your either elect or have a one way ticket to hell. Maybe Calvin got it right, or maybe not. He is human after all, probably snow covered dung like the rest of us, right? Calvin was a man who rear up if you even questioned his intrepretation. He believed to be some special prophet. Funny, all the Apostles thought they were unworthy to walk with Christ. But Christ picked them because He knew they had the "right stuff". They weren't self-appointed prophets like Calvin. Luther was a bi-polar run-away monk. The rest of them were either "a man, a Bible, and an opinion" or folks that most of us would agree are not all there. These are the type who hide their folks behind high walls and/or totally obfuscate their doctrine so they could just change it on the fly and blame a recent prophetic voice or dream on the change.
Protestants love to go to Augustine of Hippo. Folks, did you actually read his body of work. He is a Catholic. He believes in things what Catholics believe today. Just an example of his writing about Baptism: CHURCH FATHERS: On Baptism, Book I (Augustine)
Folks, don't just buy what your bachelor degreed preacher is telling you. Maybe he's right, maybe SHE's wrong. You have a brain, study the early Church Fathers and find out what they believed. If you believe that the Apostles and the contemporaries of the Apostles got it right, then find out what they believed YOURSELF. They see if your brand of Christianity agrees with them.
The Catholic Church is NOT a Christian denomination. It is the original Holy and Universal Church which all others branched off from. All break away churches, by it's separation, proclaim that the one Universal Church's teaching is false or is partially false. Either way, by doing so, these heretical churches also imply that Jesus lied to Peter and the Apostles as stated in Matthew 16.
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