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Being born again is a total new birth. We who are born again are a new creature. Being born of a woman was a new birth. Pryor to conception, the born person did not exist. So being concieved/born of a woman is the bringing forth of a new creature, ie., one which formally did not exist.
In like manner, being born of the water and of the SPIRIT, results in a new creature ie., one which previously did not exist.
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. - John 3:5
This has nothing to do with water baptism or anything else that is physical; Jesus is referring to being born of the water of the Word and of His Spirit.
Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. - John 4:10
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. - Revelation 21:6
When Paul was speaking of the Church of Jesus Christ, he said:
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. - Ephesians 5:26-27
Not for salvation. Only as a public testimony of someone who has already been saved.
If we study what water baptism meant in Jewish understanding, we could recieve a fuller understanding of it as it is for the Church. Nicodemus would have understood Proselyte water baptism, which was administered by Pharisees to gentile converts to Judaism. So strong was this baptism that the convert was to realize that they were now an entirely new person. In fact, ancient writings have been discovered showing that some of these converts claimed that they no longer owed past debts to anyone, because they were no longer that person, so now they were not responsible for those former debts.
Water was associated with cleansing and purity. Naaman the leper had been cleansed and healed after dipping seven times in the Jordan. Here we see an act of baptism resulting in awesome change. This was powered by the Word from GOD.
It is a pity that so many today do not see the power and place of water baptism, ordered by the Word of GOD, to the believer in JESUS CHRIST.
"having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of GOD, who raised Him from the dead." (Colossians 2:12)
I pray that GOD will help all true believers in CHRIST, understand the very real and powerful place water baptism has in the salvation plan. That it is the miracle working of GOD, along with other miracles, in bringing us into His kingdom through faith in JESUS CHRIST.
Water baptism is a type, a symbol. Water baptism is a physical symbol for the spiritual baptism we must go through: baptism by fire and by the holy spirit.
The water baptism symbolizes purification and cleansing, which is what a baptism of fire will do for us spiritually. It is a purging fire that burns up the chaff. It removes the wood/straw and refines the gold/silver.
1 Peter 3
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The thief on the cross was not baptized in water and he went to heaven; only the blood of Jesus can wash away sin. Water baptism is symbolic and provides a clear conscience toward God.
If we study what water baptism meant in Jewish understanding, we could recieve a fuller understanding of it as it is for the Church. Nicodemus would have understood Proselyte water baptism, which was administered by Pharisees to gentile converts to Judaism. So strong was this baptism that the convert was to realize that they were now an entirely new person. In fact, ancient writings have been discovered showing that some of these converts claimed that they no longer owed past debts to anyone, because they were no longer that person, so now they were not responsible for those former debts.
Water was associated with cleansing and purity. Naaman the leper had been cleansed and healed after dipping seven times in the Jordan. Here we see an act of baptism resulting in awesome change. This was powered by the Word from GOD.
It is a pity that so many today do not see the power and place of water baptism, ordered by the Word of GOD, to the believer in JESUS CHRIST.
"having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of GOD, who raised Him from the dead." (Colossians 2:12)
I pray that GOD will help all true believers in CHRIST, understand the very real and powerful place water baptism has in the salvation plan. That it is the miracle working of GOD, along with other miracles, in bringing us into His kingdom through faith in JESUS CHRIST.
AHHH man... you mean I could of just been baptized rather than file bankruptcy... Wish I'd have known that!
With all that Jesus said about the Pharisaical actions being unable to save you would think he had a different meaning for water.. right?
Having been baptized I can safely say that it was all peer related and had absolutely nothing to do with my salvation. I felt no different afterward.
I was saved before the baptism and after. The fact that Christianity only baptizes the saved people tells us that it is not the baptism that saves...
Didn't Jesus say that with normal water you would continually thirst but will never thirst with the LIVING water?
John 4:14 "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
This is the water that counts... now that Jesus is not here physically to give the water of life what are we to do? Yet in the New Heavens and New Earth this water flows freely and all are welcome to drink from it.
Revelation 7:17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."
So if you think that a little earthly water is needed for salvation then what else is needed? A confession? Hail Mary's? Wearing sackcloth and ashes?
It is the water of life that is important and that is given freely to all.
If you feel a symbolic dipping in water will help you finalize or pronounce your change in life.. then have at it. But is it required for salvation? Are you doomed to eternal punishment because you haven't been baptized? Nope..
The people at that time understood what Jesus was saying about the differences between what John was doing by baptizing people and what Jesus was doing. One cleaned the conscience and one renewed the man.
Acts 19:1-7
...There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when [or after] you believed?”They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized into [or in] the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.
This seems to indicate that John's water baptism was not as important as the baptizing of the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't you say?
AHHH man... you mean I could of just been baptized rather than file bankruptcy... Wish I'd have known that!
With all that Jesus said about the Pharisaical actions being unable to save you would think he had a different meaning for water.. right?
Having been baptized I can safely say that it was all peer related and had absolutely nothing to do with my salvation. I felt no different afterward.
I was saved before the baptism and after. The fact that Christianity only baptizes the saved people tells us that it is not the baptism that saves...
Didn't Jesus say that with normal water you would continually thirst but will never thirst with the LIVING water?
John 4:14 "but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."
This is the water that counts... now that Jesus is not here physically to give the water of life what are we to do? Yet in the New Heavens and New Earth this water flows freely and all are welcome to drink from it.
Revelation 7:17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."
So if you think that a little earthly water is needed for salvation then what else is needed? A confession? Hail Mary's? Wearing sackcloth and ashes?
It is the water of life that is important and that is given freely to all.
If you feel a symbolic dipping in water will help you finalize or pronounce your change in life.. then have at it. But is it required for salvation? Are you doomed to eternal punishment because you haven't been baptized? Nope..
The people at that time understood what Jesus was saying about the differences between what John was doing by baptizing people and what Jesus was doing. One cleaned the conscience and one renewed the man.
Acts 19:1-7
...There he found some disciples and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when [or after] you believed?”They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized into [or in] the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. There were about twelve men in all.
This seems to indicate that John's water baptism was not as important as the baptizing of the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't you say?
It is important to recieve all that CHRIST has for us. I don't understand why some think they have to grade and sort out the various commandments of CHRIST. What are they doing? Do they suppose themselves authorized to do that?
Water baptism has it's rightful place in the regeneration of the whole person. How is it that so many don't accept that? Is the salvation plan too complicated? Water baptism only profits those who truely have repented and have believed in JESUS CHRIST. They are enjoined with CHRIST in His death and resurrection through water baptism. The body is raised with CHRIST. It is new and alive.
When baptized in the SPIRIT, the inner man is made anew. So the whole person is a new creature. A new person heart, mind, body, and soul.
Being born of the water and SPIRIT, we are a totally new creature. We are now to live as vessels of CHRIST in holiness.
So Mike, whom do you believe Romans 1:20 is referring to? And what about those OT people who weren't Jews, such as Rahab the prostitute who helped the spies. Hebrews clearly tells us her faith in God saved her.
Romans 1:20 is stating that no one has any excuse for denying the existence of God since He has made Himself known through His creation.
Long before the Jewish race came into existence (Abraham became the first Jew at the age of 99), the Gospel was made known by God to man. The Jews were supposed to be the custodians of God's word and to evangelize the nations. They failed to do so and repeatedly came under divine discipline. Although the law was given only to Israel, the Gospel wasn't.
As I said in the earlier post, the Gospel message was given to Adam immediately after he fell. It was Jesus Christ who walked in the garden in the cool of the evening before Adam sinned. Gen. 3:8.
It was Jesus Christ who appeared to Abram and others as the angel of the Lord in His pre-incarnate appearances. It was Jesus Christ who appeared to Moses as the burning bush. It was Jesus Christ who led the Hebrews through the wilderness and appeared to them as the cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. It is Jesus Christ who is the God of Israel. 1 Cor. 10 shows this. And it was Jesus Christ who dwelled in the tabernacle in the holy of holies on the mercy seat as the shekinah glory.
In Old Testament times, whether Jew or Gentile, salvation has always been through faith in the Messiah as He was presented to them. In Numbers 21:6-9, Moses lifting up the bronze serpent on the standard was a picture of Christ on the Cross. The Hebrews who had been bitten by poisonous snakes and were dying had only to look at the serpent on the pole in order to be cured and live. This was a type or picture of Christ and to the fact that one need only believe in Christ in order to be eternally saved.
So again, it is not faith in God the Father that saves, but rather, it is faith in God the Son, Jesus Christ that saves.
Romans 1:20 is stating that no one has any excuse for denying the existence of God since He has made Himself known through His creation.
Long before the Jewish race came into existence (Abraham became the first Jew at the age of 99), the Gospel was made known by God to man. The Jews were supposed to be the custodians of God's word and to evangelize the nations. They failed to do so and repeatedly came under divine discipline. Although the law was given only to Israel, the Gospel wasn't.
As I said in the earlier post, the Gospel message was given to Adam immediately after he fell. It was Jesus Christ who walked in the garden in the cool of the evening before Adam sinned. Gen. 3:8.
It was Jesus Christ who appeared to Abram and others as the angel of the Lord in His pre-incarnate appearances. It was Jesus Christ who appeared to Moses as the burning bush. It was Jesus Christ who led the Hebrews through the wilderness and appeared to them as the cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. It is Jesus Christ who is the God of Israel. 1 Cor. 10 shows this. And it was Jesus Christ who dwelled in the tabernacle in the holy of holies on the mercy seat as the shekinah glory.
In Old Testament times, whether Jew or Gentile, salvation has always been through faith in the Messiah as He was presented to them. In Numbers 21:6-9, Moses lifting up the bronze serpent on the standard was a picture of Christ on the Cross. The Hebrews who had been bitten by poisonous snakes and were dying had only to look at the serpent on the pole in order to be cured and live. This was a type or picture of Christ and to the fact that one need only believe in Christ in order to be eternally saved.
So again, it is not faith in God the Father that saves, but rather, it is faith in God the Son, Jesus Christ that saves.
I understand & agree for the most part. But, what about those who never heard of Jesus? What is there fate, IYO? What if these people genuinely sought after their creator & worshipped Him?
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