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Old 03-07-2010, 07:00 AM
 
Location: New England
34,779 posts, read 24,063,669 times
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You believe God can do whatever He wants to .

Why do you believe He cannot get whatever He wants ?

The question is based on

4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.NIV


4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.KJV


4who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth .YL

4Who wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth.AB
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:23 AM
 
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Is 'fundamentalist' a synonym for 'mainstream'?
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:50 AM
 
Location: New England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
Is 'fundamentalist' a synonym for 'mainstream'?
shibita to me it is . It's the spirit of the system i suppose that opposes the true nature and character of God , that believes judgement is the end rather than God's love .
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:14 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,702,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You believe God can do whatever He wants to .

Why do you believe He cannot get whatever He wants ?

The question is based on

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.KJV
Keep the verse in context: Paul is giving an exhortation to pray for all men in the hopes that they will believe, and not be in prejudices and unruly to those in authority that believe not so as to live quietly in the land to be a witness of Him.

1 Timothy 2:1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

But not everyone will believe and here is why.

2 Timothy 3: 1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.

John 3: 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

So here is a warning given by God to those that serve Him and to rest in this promise that He knows those that are seeking Him as He is God to provide the Gospel to those that seek Him as promised.

Matthew 7: 6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

We know that God gave this commission to the disciples:

Matthew 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations ....

And yet, what had happened here?

Acts 16:6Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

It is because God knows those that are seeking Him were from Macedonia as opposed to no one was seeking Him at the time in Asia, Mysia, nor Bithynia.

So God is able to save and willing to save those He knows that seek Him to be saved as opposed to those that prefer their evil deeds rather than be reproved of them to live as His in that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

Do not those that hear the Gospel and yet not all believe nor want to?

So you need to broaden the parameters in how you are presenting UR as God has made a promise that all those that seek Him, shall find, but those that seek Him not, merely because they love their evil deeds more than Him to not depart from them: then the Father will not bother to draw them unto the Son to hear and to see the Good News to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation as well as for being reconciled to God to live as His by faith in the Son of God... because that is the whole point of dying on the cross for our sins.. to restore that broken relationship because of sin. By trusting Jesus Christ as Our Good Shepherd as well as Our Saviour, we are getting to know Him and the power of His resurrection when we see ourselves living the christian life simply by faith in the Son of God.

A child can do that for all they can do is trust the Lord.

So you need to acknowledge God as God in knowing whom is seeking Him as opposed to those that care not a whit to have that relationship with God but prefer their evil deeds instead.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:27 AM
 
Location: New England
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Enow it says God will have , period . Its mention about praying for all men to be saved in the verse of scripture is a call for us to pray is will.

It's God seeking us not the other way round.It's God that found us not the other way round . Salvation comes to us not the other way round.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:31 AM
 
436 posts, read 1,112,556 times
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No, God can not do anything my friend. Nope. There are things that go against His nature that He can not do. For example God can not lie, God can not sin. Now what you are talking about is one of these things, things that God has the power or might to do but not the will. And in this case it simple is against God's will to take away our will power or freedom of choice.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:39 AM
 
Location: New England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothylogan3 View Post
No, God can not do anything my friend. Nope. There are things that go against His nature that He can not do. For example God can not lie, God can not sin. Now what you are talking about is one of these things, things that God has the power or might to do but not the will. And in this case it simple is against God's will to take away our will power or freedom of choice.
I agree God does not go around doing what the hell He likes. He is God by nature and character this is why none can compare with Him.

So how absurd does it sound to you that the gospel of orthodox christianity sound to you when it tells you that God loves you more than you could ever imagine or think and demonstrated it on the Cross , yet if you do not believe He loves you that much , He's going to burn you in eternal torment ?.

What an insult it is to God to suggest that the will of man is greater than the love of God (who is love) .
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:49 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,453,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
shibita to me it is .
The word 'fundamentalist' either means something admirable, being of fundamental importance and truth, or it means something rather crazy and off-the-wall. You can't agree with the first option, do in effect you are declaring your position in need of pejorative in order to be acceptable, which is counter-productive. Unless you were deliberately attempting to re-write history for the unaware, and say that universalism is mainstream.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,702,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Enow it says God will have , period . Its mention about praying for all men to be saved in the verse of scripture is a call for us to pray is will.
Then explain how everyone that heard the Gospel did not all believe. Granted, somewhen down the road after the seed is planted and the water given by somebody else provided by the Lord that this person God is minsitering to will believe, but that is different than those that prefering their evil deeds that die, continually not believing in Jesus Christ.

Quote:
It's God seeking us not the other way round.It's God that found us not the other way round . Salvation comes to us not the other way round.
God did found us as in God knows those that would believe. There is a seeking on our part which is nothing more than God drawing us to seek after having found us.

God is God. He knows those that would receive Him and those that care not to come near Him at all.

Since wisdom comes from the Lord, ask Him the meaning of those isolatory verses that you are misapplying as other verses does declare a second death that no non-believer is coming out of.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: New England
34,779 posts, read 24,063,669 times
Reputation: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibata View Post
The word 'fundamentalist' either means something admirable, being of fundamental importance and truth, or it means something rather crazy and off-the-wall. You can't agree with the first option, do in effect you are declaring your position in need of pejorative in order to be acceptable, which is counter-productive. Unless you were deliberately attempting to re-write history for the unaware, and say that universalism is mainstream.
Orthodox and fundamental christianity in it's beginning was of God , it's now of the wrong spirit .In other words orthodox fundamental christianity is not the same as the early church , it's a man made system .
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