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Old 03-12-2010, 08:09 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
The prophesy reverts back in time to before His coming and before the LOF:

"12 "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
14Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Does it not seems he is excluding those people though?
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:14 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,911,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Sciotamicks,

It is 'the lake of fire' that is not a literal lake of fire, the explanation of what it is is that it is 'the second death' that does not mean that 'the second death' is the death of a physical flesh and blood body though.

When the sea and death and hades give up their dead -- they are not resurrected at that stage - they are still dead -- it says the dead are judged and in a previous verse it says that the dead do not live again until the thousands years are over. They do live again but not until after they are judged.
Doesn't this also line up with being born again? You can be born again/born of the spirit, in this life, or be born again after the second death which believers do not have a part of? I haven't studied the second death a whole lot. Is that how you see it, Meerkat2?
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Isa 25:8,9 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it]. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this [is] our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this [is] the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

hmmm...I wonder what people are being spoken of here????

In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will [God] appoint [for] walls and bulwarks.

The church...Israel....The New Heavens and Earth...guess what?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

ONLY for those of the faith.
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:31 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,644,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks;
I agree it is literal, not flesh and blood literal, but it is also...what?
How do you know so much about this lake of fire. Have you seen it or been in it?

Last edited by AlabamaStorm; 03-13-2010 at 01:33 AM.. Reason: Revised quote
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:11 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,388,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I agree it is literal, not flesh and blood literal, but it is also...what?
Secondly...who said these were human bodies "standing" before the throne?

You are inferring without textual support IMO
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:15 PM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,388,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Isa 25:8,9 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken [it]. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this [is] our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this [is] the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

hmmm...I wonder what people are being spoken of here????

In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will [God] appoint [for] walls and bulwarks.

The church...Israel....The New Heavens and Earth...guess what?

The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

ONLY for those of the faith.
sciotamicks, you are correct concerning "His people." And in Revelation where it is written that "death shall be no more" and "He will wipe away every tear" this also is concerning only those in the New City Jerusalem. Outside that city death is still in force in the lake of fire.

But this does not mean that all mankind will not later experience salvation and being subjected to Christ and God being All in all.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
Doesn't this also line up with being born again? You can be born again/born of the spirit, in this life, or be born again after the second death which believers do not have a part of? I haven't studied the second death a whole lot. Is that how you see it, Meerkat2?
Yes that is how I see it, and that thought has been on my mind --- all will be born again, each in their own order -- In 1 Cor 15 we are told that we are sown in corruption and raised in incorruption -- I do not see how any can be raised by the Spirit to eternally suffer destruction when the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc and I do not see anywhere that the dead have been resurrected before the second death. Resurrection is life after death.

When it talks about aionion life I believe that is continuing life it means that it will not be interupted by death (even when the physical body dies) It is about believing and obeying and not coming into condemnation for evil deeds.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,512,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
sciotamicks, you are correct concerning "His people." And in Revelation where it is written that "death shall be no more" and "He will wipe away every tear" this also is concerning only those in the New City Jerusalem. Outside that city death is still in force in the lake of fire.

But this does not mean that all mankind will not later experience salvation and being subjected to Christ and God being All in all.
I think sciotamicks believes that the rule (king's power) from the city only extends as far as the gates, and that outside the gates are the enemies of the kingdom. I believe that the king rules over all, even those outside the gate.
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:03 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
sciotamicks,
The dead are standing before the throne. Literal dead people do not stand. The phrase "the dead" is a figure of speech which is telling us of that group which represents all the dead who are now raised to life to stand before the throne.

They can't learn anything concerning their acts while being judged (set right) if they are literally dead while before the throne.

Likewise death and hades being cast into the second death is representative of all who were interred in death and hades.

So they died once. They are brought back to life, judged and enter death again, that death being their second death. It is a literal death.
Eusbius,

Do you believe that 'the dead' are resurrected then judged then die a second time and then are resurrected again? or do they just stay dead when they died the second time. What you have described is either annihilation or some people resurrected twice. I do not agree any get resurrected twice.
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Old 03-13-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
How do you know so much about this lake of fire. Have you seen it or been in it?
...scripture?
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