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Old 03-24-2010, 09:34 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,413 posts, read 2,233,026 times
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For those my friends and those of you who believe ALL will be saved, I have a question . . .

If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all will Not be Saved . . .

Would you still love and worship God?
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:46 PM
 
6,884 posts, read 5,330,440 times
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1. What is your sincere motivation behind this question? What do you hope to discover by asking this question?

2. Since you are asking a question, would you also be willing to answer this question:

"If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all WILL be Saved . . . Would you still love and worship God?

3. In your scenario, when you say "not saved" what are you saying, that God will put them in an eternal torture chamber.. or God will annihilate them? or..? Can you be a little more specific with your scenario?
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:57 PM
 
Location: UPSTATE SC
1,413 posts, read 2,233,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
1. What is your sincere motivation behind this question? What do you hope to discover by asking this question?

2. Since you are asking a question, would you also be willing to answer this question:

"If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all WILL be Saved . . . Would you still love and worship God?

3. In your scenario, when you say "not saved" what are you saying, that God will put them in an eternal torture chamber.. or God will annihilate them? or..? Can you be a little more specific with your scenario?
Hi Sparrow . .

1. What is my motivation for asking this question . . . Curiousity I'm guessing . . . . What do I hope to discover . . . .I'm not really hoping to discover, but I am not asking in a disrespectful way, just really curious.

2. If it were provent to me that All men WILL be saved, Would I still Love and Worship God . . . . May answer . . Heck Ya!!!!!! I studied Universalism and was open to exploring God Saving All . . . . I witness daily to two atheists whom I love . . . so yes, I would love it to be true and still worship him . . .

3. As far as your third question . . . . . . Not saved meaning either one, ET or annihilation, but vastly different from UR . . . both believe that the non-believer will not inherit the kingdom of God or be allowed in Heaven, both believe that they will suffer burning . . one in the lake of fire, one in Hell . . . and both believe that they will, when they see Jesus . . fall and profess Jesus is Lord . . . but reluctantly, knowing they never believed this truth . . . both believe that God's punishment is Just.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:10 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
5,978 posts, read 1,095,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
For those my friends and those of you who believe ALL will be saved, I have a question . . .

If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all will Not be Saved . . .

Would you still love and worship God?
Lifesigns,

Not sure that I can exactly answer that question as what I feel and believe to the core of my being is that Jesus via the Holy Spirit has shown me that the mercy that has been shown to us believers is also to be shown unbelievers -- just as I have been forgiven my debt that I could not pay,mercy will be shown to them. My view of God is a just God and a loving God and he will not stop being either just of loving ---- judgment has a purpose and that is not for eternal death (as we are told death is overcome) and not eternal torture (as sin is to be no more)
First death --- then judgment ----- then resurrection
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:13 PM
 
6,884 posts, read 5,330,440 times
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Ok thanks for answering my questions!
Can you make the third answer a little clearer though.
There's kind of a big difference between God annihilating a soul (Causing it to cease from existance) and God eternally torturing a soul forever with no end.

I don't know if anyone that believes God's beautful plan, that Jesus Christ IS the saviour of the WORLD, can really honestly answer this question, though. Maybe, but I don't know.


I WILL tell you that I absolutely DID NOT love God with ALL of my heart like He commanded UNTIL He brought me to the truth of His beautiful plan for ALL. It was then that I realized one of the reasons FOR that command. To take people THROUGH the valley's, through that stuff that is in mankind's heart and burn it away until you get to a place where His plan and His beautiful truth can be seen because He has given you the mind of Christ so that you CAN see and UNDERSTAND.

God brought me through loving my neighbor as myself... loving my enemies... got me to the point where I was able to love those that caused the death of a loved one. Then God started working on my love for HIM. These two great COMMANDS are what drive a soul to His glorious truths. Perfect love casts out all fear. There is NO FEAR in love. This is something that has to be dealt with in every human being's heart. FEAR and LOVE. God is telling us something. Fear allows you to believe any old thing. LOVE takes you to the truth.

The two great commands. If you follow them lukewarmly (and you KNOW if you are or not, exterior stuff doesn't count, whooping and hollering doesn't count if your whole heart isn't IN IT. This is something you (maybe) can't understand UNTIL you've been on the other side of it. A human might THINK his whole heart is in something, but God will reveal to you later and you will understand just how little your heart really was in something when he gives you the resources that ALLOWS your whole heart to REALLY TRULY be IN it. That probably doesn't make sense, but I just don't know how else to word that.) If He TAKES YOU THROUGH following the two great commands with your whole heart... truth is there unfolding, beautifully. I will testify to that over and over and over until I die. And I have no problem standing up saying NO! I did NOT love God with ALL of MY HEART, MIND And SOUL until His truth flooded my heart. This is a very, very important KEY. The two commands. He gave them to us for a VERY specific reason, in my opinion.

It wasn't an easy journey, but I thank God for taking me on it.
Because His magnificent HOLY plan is just beyond words.
It takes seeing this plan to truly understand WHY every knee will bow.
and WHY and more importantly HOW every tongue WILL SWEAR ALLEGIANCE.

Peace.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,876,045 times
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I'm curious to see the answers as well. It's an interesting question.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:24 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
5,978 posts, read 1,095,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
For those my friends and those of you who believe ALL will be saved, I have a question . . .

If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all will Not be Saved . . .

Would you still love and worship God?
Lifesigns,

It is like if I ask you this question of you ---- if it were proved to you that Satan was the overall ruler of the universe, would you obey him willingly and worship him, if he told you to worship him while he tortured forever and ever and ever, all those that do not worship him? If it were Satan doing this would you think it was evil?
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:26 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,845,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
For those my friends and those of you who believe ALL will be saved, I have a question . . .

If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all will Not be Saved . . .

Would you still love and worship God?
For me, trying to answer this question would be like answering, "If it were proven to you, and shown to you by scientists that the earth is flat, would you still own a globe?" LOL! What I mean is, ever since God revealed His true character to me, the old doctrine is so foreign to me, that it's hard to even consider such a scenario.

I agree with Sparrow that when I thought God would burn people I loved Him, but not near as deeply.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,876,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
For me, trying to answer this question would be like answering, "If it were proven to you, and shown to you by scientists that the earth is flat, would you still own a globe?" LOL! What I mean is, ever since God revealed His true character to me, the old doctrine is so foreign to me, that it's hard to even consider such a scenario.

I agree with Sparrow that when I thought God would burn people I loved Him, but not near as deeply.
Although we have very different beliefs, I understand what you are saying.
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,114,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
For those my friends and those of you who believe ALL will be saved, I have a question . . .

If it were proven to you, and shown to you by Jesus Christ Himself, that all will Not be Saved . . .

Would you still love and worship God?
That's a great question. I would have to wonder if this was the same Jesus Christ Himself that was written about in the bible. I would have to ask Jesus Christ Himself if he meant what he said when he would leave the 99 to save the lost 1....

But I would still love and worship God. God's truth's have not changed and of that I have no doubt. God is Love and because God is Love his mercy endures forever...

Psalm 136:26 O give thanks unto the God of heaven for his mercy endureth for ever

Forever is "olam" which is aion in Greek I believe.
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