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Old 05-23-2010, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,754,675 times
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Hi everyone,

the concept of "fire" is used both as "hell/torment" and "holiness/Holy Spirit/purification." -Is not the SAME fire?? Are there different fires?? How can we be sure they are different??

Any thoughts appreciated!


Blessings,
Brian
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:01 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 10,686,525 times
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I don't think they are different....I believe it's all the same "spiritual fire". And we have no way of understanding what that is exactly so it is wrong to say that "hell" is the type of fire that burns as we know it. I don't think it's that type of fire at all.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Orlando
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They say the kingdom of heaven is at hand.... likewise hell can be as well. people put themselves in their own hell. If you are thinking there is a place you will burn then you are a vistim of 2000 years of fear and propaganda. Make your heaven or hell here, its your choice. When people make the poor choices they make they don't need some vengeful God willing to through them into a a bad place forever. We are all in the same game heading for the same goal, we must all make it, no one is left behind. We are all children of God.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Florida
73,521 posts, read 40,744,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone,

the concept of "fire" is used both as "hell/torment" and "holiness/Holy Spirit/purification." -Is not the SAME fire?? Are there different fires?? How can we be sure they are different??

Any thoughts appreciated!


Blessings,
Brian
Yes they are different fires.

There is a fire which is used to test the believers works as in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 where Paul is talking to a group of believeres about how a believer should live their lives. It talks about God examining each believer's work after their deaths before he gives them heavenly rewards for their works. Remember 'salvation' and 'rewards' are two different things. Even if there are no works, a believer is still saved. See below, and again this applied only to believers.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.


And there is fire which is used to test and and strengthen people's faith while they are still living. Here God puts the faithful (his people) through a test. Note that he is talking about 'third who are left' because that at this point he has already put to death two thirds of people (sinners) "because they told lies in the LORD's name" (worshipped idols).

Zech 13:8-9 “…but a third will be left in the land. I will bring that group through the fire and make them pure, just as gold and silver are refined and purified by fire. They will call on my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘These are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is our God.’”

God tests the faithful like gold is tested in the fire, to see if they are fit for service. The word used is exactly that: dokimos = approved. On the contrary to what URs believe this fire is for living believers only, and NOT used to forcefully convert unbelieveres to faith after their deaths.

and here again (below) talking to the faithful about "having had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials". It is more proof that the faitful are tested "like gold refined in fire". So, this has nothing to do with everlasting fire

1 Peter 1:6-8 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.


And then there is the everlasting fire aka lake of fire, which is the place of eternal torment

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:41 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,721,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone,

the concept of "fire" is used both as "hell/torment" and "holiness/Holy Spirit/purification." -Is not the SAME fire?? Are there different fires?? How can we be sure they are different??

Any thoughts appreciated!


Blessings,
Brian
The source of the fire is the same but the purpose of the fire is not the same.

1. God tries the faith of the righteous in fire.
2. God rains fire and snares upon the wicked.
  • Psalms 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: BUT the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. 6 Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.
Does God try the faith of the wicked in fire? No, they lack faith. Does God snare the righteous? No.

Those two fires may look the same to an outside observer. For example, the fire on Job may have looked like a curse due to Job's wickedness, except God said Job was righteous. God trying Job's faith.
  • Job 23:10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,754,675 times
Reputation: 871
Hi guys,

Thanks for your posts.
I know the verses you mentioned, but I can't find where there is a distinction as you say there is. I do agree that the source is the same, but I don't find your categories except as you define them.

I also read the Book of Job differently. I see that Job did in fact have sin, and the devil was used to bring it to the surface. But this would be a different thread..!

Blessings,
brian
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