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I wouldn't call them crap, it depends on how you look at a car. Toyota makes reliable cars, but they're appliances - bland, underpowered compared to some of the competition and woefully behind the times in terms of options. Same with Honda and Nissan. If that's what you want, go for it. Some of us want something other than a bland econobox.
You can't buy a Toyota sedan (or a Ford, for that matter) with a 485hp V8. Nor can you buy a midsize Toyota SUV optioned anywhere close to a Grand Cherokee, and there's no V8 option at all (important if you have anything to tow). Not to mention, no one outside BMW and Porsche makes an SUV built for speed except Jeep with the Grand Cherokee SRT and the upcoming TrackHawk. Tell me, what SUV does Honda or Ford make that has almost 500 horses and can drive in the snow?
I've had 4 Jeeps in the last 15 years, one of the "worse rated" cars out there. Never had one towed. They've got some QC issues to be sure, but the drivetrains have been rock solid. They've always gotten me home, no matter the weather.
I wouldn't call them crap, it depends on how you look at a car. Toyota makes reliable cars, but they're appliances - bland, underpowered compared to some of the competition and woefully behind the times in terms of options. Same with Honda and Nissan. If that's what you want, go for it. Some of us want something other than a bland econobox.
You can't buy a Toyota sedan (or a Ford, for that matter) with a 485hp V8. Nor can you buy a midsize Toyota SUV optioned anywhere close to a Grand Cherokee, and there's no V8 option at all (important if you have anything to tow). Not to mention, no one outside BMW and Porsche makes an SUV built for speed except Jeep with the Grand Cherokee SRT and the upcoming TrackHawk. Tell me, what SUV does Honda or Ford make that has almost 500 horses and can drive in the snow?
I've had 4 Jeeps in the last 15 years, one of the "worse rated" cars out there. Never had one towed. They've got some QC issues to be sure, but the drivetrains have been rock solid. They've always gotten me home, no matter the weather.
(last paragraph ).......seems you set the bar quite low on your expectations of your jeeps
I wouldn't call them crap, it depends on how you look at a car. Toyota makes reliable cars, but they're appliances - bland, underpowered compared to some of the competition and woefully behind the times in terms of options. Same with Honda and Nissan. If that's what you want, go for it. Some of us want something other than a bland econobox.
You can't buy a Toyota sedan (or a Ford, for that matter) with a 485hp V8. Nor can you buy a midsize Toyota SUV optioned anywhere close to a Grand Cherokee, and there's no V8 option at all (important if you have anything to tow). Not to mention, no one outside BMW and Porsche makes an SUV built for speed except Jeep with the Grand Cherokee SRT and the upcoming TrackHawk. Tell me, what SUV does Honda or Ford make that has almost 500 horses and can drive in the snow?
I've had 4 Jeeps in the last 15 years, one of the "worse rated" cars out there. Never had one towed. They've got some QC issues to be sure, but the drivetrains have been rock solid. They've always gotten me home, no matter the weather.
But very few people are looking to buy a sedan with a 485hp V8. How many of those does Chrysler actually sell per year? They're going to have to learn to make reliable mainstream vehicles or go out of business. It seems like they've had issues with automatic transmissions for 30 years now. How long does it take to figure it out?
in the pentastar they had issues with there not being enough coolant circulation in the heads and the heat would warp the valves and start ticking . eventually the check engine light came on from misses .
so far no issues with the replaced heads . i have 65k now , the heads were replaced at 16k
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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As manufacturers merge, are sold, or need federal assistance, quality goes up and down. We had great luck with a 1989 and then a 1996 Cherokee, but a horrible experience with a 2002 Jeep Liberty. My 2013 Challenger has been trouble free (other than one recall for alternator) but most of it is Mercedes, which is why I went for that year. Now with Fiat running Chrysler, I would be more skeptical. Chrysler has tended to be more of a "form over function" company, with some of the better looking vehicles, possibly sacrificing reliability. The worst, in my experience since the 1980s, is their service departments and sales people.
Do you have an example? Or are we just speculating based on things like JD Power rankings?
Recent Chrysler offerings have been hammered in a lot of the quality/satisfaction surveys as a result of the 9 speed FWD automatic transmissions in the Jeep Cherokee and Renegade, and Chrysler 200. Chrysler did not decide to sell a bad transmission, and is working to try and resolve issues. Chrysler bought the design from ZF, and has fitted it to their vehicles but has not been able to sort out the programming to make it meet customer satisfaction. One could blame Chrysler here, but both Land Rover and Honda/Acura also use this same ZF transmission, and they too have the same rough shifting issues plaguing the products they use them in. ZF is trying to wash it's hands saying the design is fine, and it is the purchasing company's programming that is wrong.
In my own anecdotal experience, Chrysler's real world reliability has far exceeded it's ratings, where as other makers products (cough Ford cough) have fallen well short. I have had a couple Jeeps, and a pair of Chargers, and have had nothing worse than a cruise control button and a rear wiper button go bad across all four.
Of course, I also think Chrysler quality varies a LOT depending on the product. The LX cars are very good, (Charger is a class leader in sales), but are built on some very solid Mercedes E and S Class platform components which really let them ride and handle well, even though the Merc components are quite long in the tooth now. Cars like the Jeep Compass/Patriot are not reputed good, and have roots in the old Sebring with co development and platform sharing with Hyundai. Among cars like the last generation Sebring, the compass/Patriot, etc, you had them come to market during the ownership of Cerebus Equity too, which cut as many corners as possible as they were just trying to strip as much cash out of the company as possible. Then you have the Dodge Dart, the first Fiat sourced product, which has some flaws from being rushed to market to satisfy the government restructure after the bailout.
I know I am getting long winded. I guess ultimately, I feel Chrysler quality is really something that needs evaluation vehicle to vehicle, as things like build quality and even ultimate reliability vary greatly, and it is from having multiple ownerships and development partnerships over the past decade or so, which took each vehicle platform and program down different roads.
Hopefully if FCA ownership continues, and products are more consistently engineered under the same development teams and receive proper periodic improvement, overall quality and reliability will rise.
But very few people are looking to buy a sedan with a 485hp V8. How many of those does Chrysler actually sell per year? They're going to have to learn to make reliable mainstream vehicles or go out of business. It seems like they've had issues with automatic transmissions for 30 years now. How long does it take to figure it out?
But that is still glossing over his point. Honda had automatic transmission issues for years in V6 equipped vehicles like the Odyssey, RL and Accord. If you stick to appliance like cars with low torque 4 cylinders and few high tech options you have less chances of complaints. Anytime any automaker delves into high performance or niche off road vehicles the chances of higher complaints and problems increases.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Chrysler / Dodge / Ram is about being bold, cool, and powerful. Their customers don't demand great reliability. Toyota and Honda are the opposite. They are about practical and reliable so their customers are fine with their car being more bland.
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