Gay activists try to ruin Creation Museum "Date Night" (lesbians, adults)

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Captain... I do understand what you mean. But as long as there are ideologies in the world who profess it is their solemn duty to correct the rest of us by whatever means, we have to remain vigilant. The Muslim jihad is not a new concept, having existed for thousands of years. To me, they are in the same vein as the creationists and anyone else who cannot stand to be challenged as to the foundation of their beliefs.

I will grant them a certain ability to practice their beliefs as they see fit, but once they cross the boundary of drawing others into their circle through fundraising, physical pleasantries, etc. I start to draw the line. To me the first level is to deny them non-profit status. If you encourage participation for which you collect a fee, then pay a tax on the result. I told my son if he really wanted to get rich than start a church. Sorry, but that is the way I feel.

I understood exactly what you're trying to say, and I am definitely not the one to tell you or anybody that they can't or shouldn't feel that way...trust me on that one...

I guess my main beef, if any, with Christianity, is that some (definitely not all) of its' members can and do come across as loud-mouthed and intolerant, which of course can be the same with any organization or group of people...I've seen and posted in some threads where said intolerance reached levels that literally enraged me on the spot...but I digress, I came here now to kinda stick up for gay folk, and let it be known that people's intolerance and loud-mouthedness won't silence me...you owe me no apologies, in fact I respect you all the more for your plain-spoken, upfront manner

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

Creationist or evolutionist, gay or straight, Christian or atheist...we ALL should really just shut the **** up, stop shouting and jumping up and down like grasshoppers on steroids, and actually learn to CO-EXIST and embrace each other's differences (what a concept!), instead of going off on some annoying endless crying jag about who's side is better than who's...

I completely, 100% agree with this paragraph, except for the bolded fragment.

Nobody embraces other's differences when they are blatantly, er, different. When I read "embrace differences" I think (sorry) liberal/progressive pablum, a child's view of how adults "should" live. Sorry. Nope. Not gonna happen.

BUT...

Civilization and civility demand that we tolerate the presence of the different, unless it harms us.

That's not "embracing." "Embrace" is asking too much of natural adversaries. Tolerance, however, should be mandatory.

Live and let live.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

I completely, 100% agree with this paragraph, except for the bolded fragment.

Nobody embraces other's differences when they are blatantly, er, different. When I read "embrace differences" I think (sorry) liberal/progressive pablum, a child's view of how adults "should" live. Sorry. Nope. Not gonna happen.

BUT...

Civilization and civility demand that we tolerate the presence of the different, unless it harms us.

That's not "embracing." "Embrace" is asking too much of natural adversaries. Tolerance, however, should be mandatory.

Live and let live.

Let the record show, I am not a child, I am a fully grown thinking adult... nor do I spout 'liberal/progressive pablum'---you're attempting to belittle the views of a whole lot of people, by standing somewhere with your arms folded and your jaw thrust out, thinking that automatically makes you right, and that'll intimidate or stop people from speaking out---forget that noise...I am sorry if my opinions and/or views run counter to yours, and this happens every day, but I'm not going to sit here and call your views anything but what they are, even if I don't agree with you...

And further---'sorry...nope...not gonna happen'? Once again, you are entitled to your view/opinion on things...but know you this---as long as I have functioning brain cells, vocal cords, a computer with a keyboard, a pen, a piece of paper, whatever method it takes, then I will continue to express myself, as will others who think like I do...

I really don't like to come across like this...I try to remain as civil as possible even when I'm dealing with a touchy subject, or disagreeing with a fellow poster...but you kinda flipped the switch with that little diatribe about 'children spouting liberal/progressive pablum'...I and my father before me, my older brothers, and more than a few of my uncles (as I've stated elsewhere on City Data) have served this country, both in the military, and also as cops and firefighters...

And because we have, say, voted Democrat in our history, and don't necessarily embrace or agree with conservative points of view all the time, then suddenly, we lose the right to express ourselves, or get belittled as 'un-American' and 'not patriotic'? To close here, and to use your words one more time: 'sorry...nope...not gonna happen...'

[Ohioan58]

Oh, come on. Some Catholics consider Protestants apostates. Tea partiers villify the personal character of liberals and progressives. Natural adversaries do not "embrace" differences.

When I made the derogatory comments about "embracing" I couched it with "I think". Sorry to have offended you.

Let me use a strange example of the power of human contentiousness. The US constitution's balance of powers of the government - the three bodies (executive, legislative, judicial) - were designed to prevent a monopoly of power.

The framers of the constitution realized that they could leverage the power of humans to argue with each other, to prevent so much power from aggregating in one place that the US would be turned into a monarchy again.

It's worked incredibly well. It's kept the US free for 230+ years.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Oh, come on. Some Catholics consider Protestants apostates. Tea partiers villify the personal character of liberals and progressives. Natural adversaries do not "embrace" differences.

When I made the derogatory comments about "embracing" I couched it with "I think". Sorry to have offended you.

Let me use a strange example of the power of human contentiousness. The US constitution's balance of powers of the government - the three bodies (executive, legislative, judicial) - were designed to prevent a monopoly of power.

The framers of the constitution realized that they could leverage the power of humans to argue with each other, to prevent so much power from aggregating in one place that the US would be turned into a monarchy again.

It's worked incredibly well. It's kept the US free for 230+ years.

Now you go and educate me (I'm serious here) with your remarks on the Constitution...well said...

And your first part (about natural adversaries) was telling too...I mean, I disagreed with a lot of what you said in that one post, but I don't think of you as an adversary---not at all...

That's the best part of being here on City-Data...we ain't all gonna sit around the fire, eating S'Mores and singing 'Kumbaya', but I will do the back and forth with somebody who has a good argument all day long...

And to stay on-topic here, I guess that's why I made a somewhat spirited defense of gay folk upthread...I know everybody doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle, but I always take the tack of them being adults, and citizens, and thus entitled to some of the same dignity and respect that those of us in the straight world ask for---whether we approve of their choices or not...

I realize you and I aren't always gonna agree on everything, but I'm here to let you know that I will always debate with you respectfully...I give that same respect to everybody here, even when I have one of my 'hothead moments' LOL (ask Wilson1010 about the infamous 'Smitty's' thread )

[Wilson513]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

LOL (ask Wilson1010 about the infamous 'Smitty's' thread )

I think I'm gonna have to eat crow on that Smitty's thing. I read they were going to re open soon.

[Ohioan58]

Catfish, all I was saying (in summation) is that I don't think it's even possible to find an instance in human history of a sustained "embrace of differences", therefore, I don't think it's realistic to hope for it now.

My point was that we should anticipate that people are always going to be mutually antagonistic about specific subject matter, and we plan around that fact as a society. And we impose a standard that unless somebody is being hurt, our duty is to tolerate.

Wanna embrace differences? That is fine, great even. But that is not a behavior to expect or mandate from most people. It is role model level behavior. Salutary. Not a norm to be reasonably expected.

That's really all I was saying.

[captaincatfish]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Catfish, all I was saying (in summation) is that I don't think it's even possible to find an instance in human history of a sustained "embrace of differences", therefore, I don't think it's realistic to hope for it now.

My point was that we should anticipate that people are always going to be mutually antagonistic about specific subject matter, and we plan around that fact as a society. And we impose a standard that unless somebody is being hurt, our duty is to tolerate.

Wanna embrace differences? That is fine, great even. But that is not a behavior to expect or mandate from most people. It is role model level behavior. Salutary. Not a norm to be reasonably expected.

That's really all I was saying.

Again, thank you for clarifying your thoughts...and you've earned my respect for being honest and forthright

[Ohioan58]

The way I figure it - I usually want to stab someone who is antagonizing me in the eye with a fork. I have no right to expect anyone else to be better than me.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

The way I figure it - I usually want to stab someone who is antagonizing me in the eye with a fork. I have no right to expect anyone else to be better than me.

I consider that a good response. Why do you want to disparage someone who has not made specific vile remarks against you? In this current society there are many reasons. Let us hope we can find some common denominator for agreement.