Any news on Phase 2 in Carmelle (Mason, Ohio)?

[kjbrill]

Hey Matthew, put some real life examples with monetary values to your claims of these externalities. Sounds like an egghead explanation of something they really do not understand but want to state they are experts to me. We have a lot of prople who proclaim to know the problem, but cannot tie it down in terms the rest of us can understand. Since you are obviously an expert, please advise the rest of us via some actual examples rather than a nebulous diatribe based solely upon political rhetoric. And yes it is, like about everything else going on, political rhetoric.

And you seem to lose fact that time after time I have never claimed the Cincinnati CBD is in trouble. It appears to be functioning quite well, and I believe it will continue. But the major reason will be the corporations doing business in Cincinnati are recruiting people due to the very good living atmosphere of the suburbs, much more convenient than larger cities like NYC, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, etc. The City itself is contributing very little to this. The City needs to get its act together before the flight to the suburbs reduces its population to a few in upscale condos, lofts, etc. in downtown which are a blip on the total population.

I keep hearing from you getting something for nothing. Please come back with some specific facts as to how you believe this is true. In my view, the City is getting something for nothing since the suburbs have been making up for its mistakes for years.

[Matthew Hall]

If stories about painting your house are "nebulous diatribes" you arent' smart enough to participate in a discussion, I'm afraid. There are many reasons why people might come to cincinnati. Almost every person I know in OTR came to cincinnati for a job from somewhere else. Several have told me that they wouldn't have come to work for P&G, UC and 5/3 bank respectively if there hadn't been good urban neighborhoods to live here. Suburbs meant nothing to them. The total value of the income of cincinnati residents, salaries earned in cincinnati and of property in cincinnati has grown in recent years. This is something that many other local govn't in the area can't say. Those few upscale condos are worth more than a thousands of apartment dwellers or post-war cape cod owners. It is a sign of the new inequality that cincinnati can INCREASE its tax income from the professional classes. Cincinnati doesn't need the 'ordinary' folks. To explain the modern world, follow the money, not the people. Cincinnati certainly has. Which is all entirely separate from the fact that if Cincinnati weren't functioning, Mason wouldn't either and many of your neighbors would leave for other metros. mason can't exist without cincinnati anymore than a child can exist without its parents.

[kjbrill]

Wow, guess I have been missing something. As you say follow the money. And for a few decades the money has been flowing out of Cincinnati to the suburbs. So now you want to say it has reversed and the money is once again flowing into the City. The real story is property in the City has become so rundown and low in value it is almost a no-brainer to invest in. If you take something which is next to zero and make it worth anything the increase can be several hundred percent. If your investment doesn't work it is still worth the next to nothing you paid for it. Doesn't take an Einstein to figure this out.

[Matthew Hall]

No, you're wrong. People have been leaving, but money(which means much more than the individual pay checks of workers) hasn't. That is my point. Cincinnati is receiving more investment than it has received since the 1980s. Net personal wealth of residents, property values, the market capitalization of businesses, tax receipts, and public and private investment in roads, schools, sewers, parks, etc. are all "money" and all have grown in Cincinnati in the last few years. That isn't true for any other area around cincinnati.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Matthew Hall

No, you're wrong. People have been leaving, but money(which means much more than the individual pay checks of workers) hasn't. That is my point. Cincinnati is receiving more investment than it has received since the 1980s. Net personal wealth of residents, property values, the market capitalization of businesses, tax receipts, and public and private investment in roads, schools, sewers, parks, etc. are all "money" and all have grown in Cincinnati in the last few years. That isn't true for any other area around cincinnati.

But your definition of money is different than mine. As I have said repeatedly, I have no problem with the viability of the CBD, The business community is doing well and will continue to do well. They will continue to invest in the downtown business structure.

What I want to serparate out is the difference between business investment and ordinary residents of Cinccinnati. There is where I see the big differential. Granted OTR is gaining via their various gentrifiction projects. But overall thy are losing ground as the City itself continues to lose population. If the objective is to run the lower income people completely out of Cincinnati, just simply state that.

[Matthew Hall]

Without business investment none of us would be here, no cincinnati, no mason, no anyone, just forests. Sadly, many "ordinary" people have little of value to local govn't or economies anymore. Declining incomes and property values mean they matter less and less each day. But, businesses and public services do have value and are receiving major new investments in recent years in cincinnatil. Everything that has value counts. That is how economists look at things. The new investment is hardly just in OTR. downtown, clifton, corryville, and hyde park have seen major new public and private investments in hosptials, medical research and administrative facilities, new apartments, new or remodeled schools, not to mention a resurgence in remodeling of existing commercial and residential buildings in recent years. All of this is beside 3cdc, the banks, casino, and new and remodeled buildings in downtown itself. Many in cincinnati would be glad to see the poor move to colerain, springfield or columbia townships, covington, lincoln heights, etc.. I would have thought that was obvious.

[rrtechno]

Originally Posted by Matthew Hall

Here's a example even you might understand. If your neighbor paints his house and improves his lawn, it adds to the value of your neighboring property, even though you spent nothing. ...Externalities also work in reverse. ...

So, by your own admission, when Mason "paints his house and improves his lawn, it adds to the value of" Cincinnati. Right?

[rrtechno]

Someone should let P&G in on these leeches in the suburbs. It appears P&G has nearly 2.75 million square feet of office/factory/research space under roof plus 300+ acres of property in the Cincy Metro area - BUT outside the Cincy city limits. Someone needs to set them straight about how things should be.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by rrtechno

Someone should let P&G in on these leeches in the suburbs. It appears P&G has nearly 2.75 million square feet of office/factory/research space under roof plus 300+ acres of property in the Cincy Metro area - BUT outside the Cincy city limits. Someone needs to set them straight about how things should be.

Yes, obviously P&G doesn't know what they are doing. The mere fact that people struggle to get one of these jobs so they can be close to where they live is an oxymoron.