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Location: livin' the good life on America's favorite island
2,221 posts, read 4,389,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
After billions in investment and 30 years of sacrifice, disruption, and construction, Portland OR is exactly where Cincinnati is - no one uses rail. It is no more than a very, very expensive entertainment ride and a gimmick to cause the inevitable housing expansion to take place in some areas of the city that residents would not otherwise choose to live. Just like here. Development along a route where the real estate people on Council and their well connected friends have made investments.
I say, give everyone who shows up to take the ride a $100 and call it a day. They can spend it on something else. (Or maybe its $1,000 - time will tell).
good post.
Rail....waste of taxpayers money!! Just check out the percentage used by population in cities that have it. Only your major cities, NY, Chicago is it maybe worthwhile. Any city putting in rail will spent a fortune of taxpayers money and it will be heavily subsidized to operate. I for one will never use rail except for one or two token trips. In Charlotte with a city that has tens of thousand white collar that work in center city, there is considered heavy use by the rail from commuters but it turns out to be only 2% of workers. Best case scenario for town like Cinci is under 5% use by population. IMO it is pie in sky wish by liberals who believe that government should subsidise their life or some form of socialism...America can not continue the ridiculous spending...
good post.
Rail....waste of taxpayers money!! Just check out the percentage used by population in cities that have it. Only your major cities, NY, Chicago is it maybe worthwhile. Any city putting in rail will spent a fortune of taxpayers money and it will be heavily subsidized to operate. I for one will never use rail except for one or two token trips. In Charlotte with a city that has tens of thousand white collar that work in center city, there is considered heavy use by the rail from commuters but it turns out to be only 2% of workers. Best case scenario for town like Cinci is under 5% use by population. IMO it is pie in sky wish by liberals who believe that government should subsidise their life or some form of socialism...America can not continue the ridiculous spending...
When Charlotte claims 2% of commuters use rail, it likely means 2% ever, not 2% per day. Charlotte has even more people driving to work alone than Cincinnati. They spent billions and went backwards. Here is the City Data graphic compared to Cincinnati:
Not only do people in Charlotte not ride the train, they also do not use the bus. Cincinnat has, what, four times the bus ridership?
Of course, anyone who thinks a UC link to downtown is meaningful has never been on Vine Street. One can get a bus from UC to Fountain Square every 10 minutes or less and the buses are completely empty all day long except at rush hour, long before UC classes begin and after they end. And, UC students hardly ever go downtown for anything. And, why would one want to encourge UC residence away from the campus area, other than to make money on real estate along the route. UC is far bettr off having the students and faculty live around the campus. Isn't that obvious?
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Last edited by Wilson513; 02-18-2012 at 05:45 AM..
After billions in investment and 30 years of sacrifice, disruption, and construction, Portland OR is exactly where Cincinnati is - no one uses rail. It is no more than a very, very expensive entertainment ride and a gimmick to cause the inevitable housing expansion to take place in some areas of the city that residents would not otherwise choose to live. Just like here. Development along a route where the real estate people on Council and their well connected friends have made investments.
I say, give everyone who shows up to take the ride a $100 and call it a day. They can spend it on something else. (Or maybe its $1,000 - time will tell).
Even if you took 10% of that $100 handout and spent it on code enforcement in the neighborhoods it'd do wonders to improve the city. The whole city.
Of course, anyone who thinks a UC link to downtown is meaningful has never been on Vine Street. One can get a bus from UC to Fountain Square every 10 minutes or less and the buses are completely empty all day long except at rush hour, long before UC classes begin and after they end.
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While I'll agree with you that buses on Vine Street past UC are frequent, I don't agree that they are as empty as you suggest. First of all, the buses that frequent Vine St. are the #78, 46, 43--buses that transport many more people than students not only to the hospital district, but to the inner city residential areas (Avondale, Bond Hill, Roselawn) and outward suburbs (St. Bernard, Elmwood Place, Hartwell, Woodlawn, and Lockland). However, the predominate number of UC students hop on the Clifton Avenue buses such as the popular #17, 18, 19s that pass through the Gaslight District and Northside. On these routes there's no such thing as an "empty bus." Meanwhile, the #39 Uptown and the #51 Crosstown buses take on numerous UC students going here or there.
While I'll agree with you that buses on Vine Street past UC are frequent, I don't agree that they are as empty as you suggest. First of all, the buses that frequent Vine St. are the #78, 46, 43--buses that transport many more people than students not only to the hospital district, but to the inner city residential areas (Avondale, Bond Hill, Roselawn) and outward suburbs (St. Bernard, Elmwood Place, Hartwell, Woodlawn, and Lockland). However, the predominate number of UC students hop on the Clifton Avenue buses such as the popular #17, 18, 19s that pass through the Gaslight District and Northside. On these routes there's no such thing as an "empty bus." Meanwhile, the #39 Uptown and the #51 Crosstown buses take on numerous UC students going here or there.
Good observation on the buses.
As for the traffic, there isn't any. I have never seen more than a half dozen cars in a line southbound at Vine and McMicken which is about a 2 minute light.
Point is, there is no reason why a dedicated link between UC and downtown would be helpful or advisable. Clifton has endless under developed property and too many non UC residents. UC would want to discourage its students and faculty from commuting from downtown or anywhere, by bus, car or otherwise. Walking is the preferred access to UC and within a mile, there are probably as many residential units occupied by non students as there are students in the entire college.
When this subject came up before, I discussed this with my DAAP student son who said he went downtown from UC maybe four times in five years from school. Its just silly to claim a benefit for a dedicated transportation link.
Wilson... I agree a transportation link between UC and downtown is not needed. As you said, it is in UC's interests to have its students living locally. And on a college student's resources there is plenty around the university such that it makes no sense to go downtown.
I don't know what the percentage is currently, but in my day a high percentage of the UC students commuted. I commuted all 5 years from Madeira. My son and daughter later commuted from Mason. My grandson just started as a freshman and is commuting from Mt Airy. I never once felt deprived of the college atmosphere from not living on campus. I attended every sports, etc. even on campus I was interested in. I had strong relationships with my HS classmates I maintained while in college, and they still remain today. Acutally it was more K-12 as we all went to school together for 12 years. That forms lifelong bonds.
My point is, what percentage of full-time undergraduate students currently live on or near UC campus? And I have to believe there still is a large number of people in night-school, etc. trying to either get their degree or advance one. I have to believe these people, likely working a day-time job, are not anxious to take public transportation, bus or streetcar for this purpose, as they want to minimize the interference in their life for a single ambition - get that degree.
Things clearly haven't been working here for the past 50+ years, as evidenced by massive population decline and neglect of Cincy's neighborhoods. Something clearly has to change if Cincinnati is to improve as a city.
I'm glad we have people in this city who are willing to take a cue from other sucessful cities around the country, and try to improve Cincinnati by trying something different. Rail.
Sorry you can't see the vision.
A lot of people don't see the "vision" because it's not practical. It's been done and failed. Cincinnati is far from the type of city that requires a rail system, let alone a pathetic rail system such as the one proposed. It's not Chicago, New York, etc. It's Cincinnati, a declining industrial city that's not comparatively densely populated. Their bus system is more than enough to handle the public transportation demand.
Now, I don't know what they can do right off the top of my head to turn around Cincinnati's decline. But, they can find better ways to spend the taxpayer money that will not end up a money pit for even more taxpayer's money for the future generations.
Location: livin' the good life on America's favorite island
2,221 posts, read 4,389,805 times
Reputation: 1391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513
When Charlotte claims 2% of commuters use rail, it likely means 2% ever, not 2% per day. Charlotte has even more people driving to work alone than Cincinnati. They spent billions and went backwards. Here is the City Data graphic compared to Cincinnati:
Not only do people in Charlotte not ride the train, they also do not use the bus. Cincinnat has, what, four times the bus ridership?
Of course, anyone who thinks a UC link to downtown is meaningful has never been on Vine Street. One can get a bus from UC to Fountain Square every 10 minutes or less and the buses are completely empty all day long except at rush hour, long before UC classes begin and after they end. And, UC students hardly ever go downtown for anything. And, why would one want to encourge UC residence away from the campus area, other than to make money on real estate along the route. UC is far bettr off having the students and faculty live around the campus. Isn't that obvious?
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And Obama this week just committed another half billion dollars to add to the Charlotte rail...hmm, wonder if the 2012 DEM convention has anything to do with throwing money here..
Lest anyone forget, the streetcar was planned to travel to UC/Uptown before our treacherous governor ripped out its funding. This second loop, alone, would have assured students (many of them out-of-towners) and other urban residents a vital link in and out of the CBD ( shopping/entertainment/jobs/culture/diversity). Although I think that the streetcar's introduction will add a new and exciting dimension to our CBD as is ( the Banks to Findlay Market), I also realize that it's a severely crippled compromise (THANKS, Kasich!). It's imperative that this second loop be completed ASAP to reap the streetcar's full potential. While the Portland/Cincinnati graphs posted by the OP are provocative and worthy of closer examination, it's time we disconnected ourselves from our incessant fondling of this far west counterpart and concentrate on our own city.
Why do you blame Kasich for not funding it? Why can't the street car be self-sufficient? Why does it have to rely on the State of Ohio and the Federal Government to fund it? And who's going to cover the ongoing annual shortfalls?
It's going to be a financial mess of epic proportions and will make the Freedom Center look as profitable as P&G; which reminds me; the same people behind the Freedom Center are the same people behind the Streetcar.
Why do you blame Kasich for not funding it? Why can't the street car be self-sufficient? Why does it have to rely on the State of Ohio and the Federal Government to fund it?
Because the city voted for it TWICE, and the money had already been given to us. Out of the $130 Million needed, only $50 million came from Columbus.
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