Traffic Cameras (Cincinnati, Dayton, Elmwood Place: loan, tenants, landlord)

[WILWRadio]

I just heard a report on WLW indicating there are speeding cameras being set up on some area streets. In this particular case I think Elmwood Place was mentioned in the story and a local Landlord said that so many of his tenants were getting tickets that they could no longer pay their rent.

Question. Are these things going to be installed everywhere on the Ohio side of Cincinnati's metro area?

It is virtually impossible NOT to speed even 1 mph over the speed limit simply because handling a car in certain cases makes it difficult to with traffic conditions to be at the speed limit. And I know from personal experience there are times when I've actually avoided getting into a car accident when I sped up to avoid a collision. Slowing down in many cases would have led to a collision.

[unusualfire]

Speeds cams huh? First reds light cams and now this? What's next??? Interstates?

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Speeds cams huh? First reds light cams and now this? What's next??? Interstates?

Yes it is troubling. In Connecticut they were voted down because the State Police and I believe the State Legislature knew that they were more trouble than they were worth. Nothing more than a money making scheme and also unconstitutional.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Yes it is troubling. In Connecticut they were voted down because the State Police and I believe the State Legislature knew that they were more trouble than they were worth. Nothing more than a money making scheme and also unconstitutional.

Please explain why they are unconstitutional? Where does it state in the consitutution you can be endangering someone else with immunity? I do not have an opinion on their economic effectiveness, but if they are effective and also make money bring them on. There are so many times I am on the Interstate and wondering Where are the cops? I understand there are disagreements as to what valid speed limits should be. But if you disagree then lobby the state legislature to change them, just don't take it upon yourself to disregard the limit.

We have a couple of intersections in the town which I live which are quite a large volume of traffic. They have left turn signals, some of which are completely convoluted as the signal time in one direction is much longer than in the other. Some traffic volume study probably dictated this. But use common sense, if there is more left-turn volume from one direction recognize that. But don't terminate the left-turn signal from the opposite direction several seconds less. Obviously people will anticipate the all clear to go straqht ahead. I have witnessed several wham-bang-thank-you collisions due to people anticipating going straight ahead while others were still turning left.

I know one of these intersections now has a red light violation camera, and I am definitely in favor of it. The number of people I have personally witnessed launching through the intersection on a very late Yellow light, it was already Red before they started, I cannot believe how individually selfish they are and disregarding of others. I hope that camera nails each and every one of them.

What constitutional right are you speaking of? The right to commit mayhem on everyone else?

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Please explain why they are unconstitutional? Where does it state in the consitutution you can be endangering someone else with immunity? I do not have an opinion on their economic effectiveness, but if they are effective and also make money bring them on. There are so many times I am on the Interstate and wondering Where are the cops? I understand there are disagreements as to what valid speed limits should be. But if you disagree then lobby the state legislature to change them, just don't take it upon yourself to disregard the limit.

We have a couple of intersections in the town which I live which are quite a large volume of traffic. They have left turn signals, some of which are completely convoluted as the signal time in one direction is much longer than in the other. Some traffic volume study probably dictated this. But use common sense, if there is more left-turn volume from one direction recognize that. But don't terminate the left-turn signal from the opposite direction several seconds less. Obviously people will anticipate the all clear to go straqht ahead. I have witnessed several wham-bang-thank-you collisions due to people anticipating going straight ahead while others were still turning left.

I know one of these intersections now has a red light violation camera, and I am definitely in favor of it. The number of people I have personally witnessed launching through the intersection on a very late Yellow light, it was already Red before they started, I cannot believe how individually selfish they are and disregarding of others. I hope that camera nails each and every one of them.

What constitutional right are you speaking of? The right to commit mayhem on everyone else?

The presumption of Guilt without all of the facts. Innocent until proven guilty is how our system of law is supposed to work. A perfect illustration of this very flawed system follows.

I talk to a woman that works in a convenience store in KC who moved here recently from Florida. A friend of hers borrowed her car and ended up going through a red light and a camera caught it and the woman from FLA got the ticket. This despite the fact she was not only not driving the car but not even in it. Now an arrest warrant has been issued for her even though she had nothing to do with this infraction.

Sorry. But this crap is right out of NAZI Germany or Stalinist Russia.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

I talk to a woman that works in a convenience store in KC who moved here recently from Florida. A friend of hers borrowed her car and ended up going through a red light and a camera caught it and the woman from FLA got the ticket. This despite the fact she was not only not driving the car but not even in it. Now an arrest warrant has been issued for her even though she had nothing to do with this infraction.

Sorry. But this crap is right out of NAZI Germany or Stalinist Russia.

Sorry guy, but I totally do not agree. If you loan your car to another individual, especially if you have given them the keys, you have assumed responsibility. What ever comes out of that relationsahip you are involved, plain and simple.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Sorry guy, but I totally do not agree. If you loan your car to another individual, especially if you have given them the keys, you have assumed responsibility. What ever comes out of that relationsahip you are involved, plain and simple.

Absolutely NOT. It's passing the buck. Putting the blame on someone that had nothing to do with the alleged infraction.

If you loaned a friend your moped (assuming you had one) and he drover over a couple of pedestrians with it do you think that you should be held liable for the injuries sustained by the pedestrians or any legal action taken either by the people that were hurt or law enforcement? I don't.

Or if you loaned a friend a tire iron and he ends up clobbering someone with it during an argument do you think you should be held responsible? I don't.

Right now I am listening to Scott Sloan on WLW and some of their callers have called in to say that slews of tickets are being issued over this and many of these people swear they are not only not going over the speed limit but at times are well under.

This is nothing more than a command and control issue and a money making scheme by these boss hog towns that don't have a means to generate some additional revenue.

[unusualfire]

Geez kjbrill. Some people needs a break. To get a ticket going 25 in a 25 zone is NONSENSE. That should have ended the program right there.

[hensleya1]

Hi all--

All of these cameras are shameless money grabs. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no conclusive evidence that cameras improve safety.

For every T-bone that a camera prevents, it causes a rear-end when the lead car slams on his brakes to avoid getting a ticket.

The only difference is the millions of $ the city splits with Redflex Traffic Systems which often goes into the city's general fund. In order to plug the defcit holes left by people leaving the city for greener pastures.


Secondly, camera tickets are an egregious violation of due process guaranteed under the Constitution, because they carry the presumption of guilt rather than innocence. The State knows this, that's why it's handled as a civil matter rather than a criminal one. Problem is, speeding is a criminal violation, not a civil one. Prosecuting a criminal violation as a civil one in order to shift the burden of proof is in itself a violation of due process.

Should I ever receive a ticket from one of these cameras, I will immediately file a lawsuit against the jurisdiction that issued it, the camera maker, and any other relevant parties, seeking a class action status and demanding specific performance: that the cameras be removed permanently and the money refunded to drivers.

[Crew Chief]

I truly wish anyone that believes red light cameras are a good idea should have to get behind the wheel of an unloaded tractor trailer on a wet or snowy/icy road. As you approach the (most likely shortened) yellow light you have two choices: Run the light and get the ticket. Or slam on your brakes and hope like heck your trailer doesn't jacknife and hit the car next to you. There's a red light camera in Dayton I watched change from afar and I KNOW I couldn't stop at it if I had to... Traffic cameras are purely a revenue generator.