What's it going to take for the Bengals to win the big game?????????

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Guess you didn't watch that 49ers game the other night!

Yes, I agree Green Bay itself is a small market town. But get your map out and take a close look. Green Bay is off a bay/inlet of Lake Michigan. It is not like they are out on the trundra somewhere. Milwaukee, which doesn't have a team is how far away? Look at the other significant manufacturing centers such as Manitowoc, Sheboygan and Fond du Lac close buy. I don't deny they have to sell Green Bay, and have done a very good job at it.

Green Bay does fight the same battle as the Bengals. And they win their share. But recognize the entire state has two professional football and baseball teams.

I believe the NFL has revenue sharing of the national TV contracts. Thus small market teams like Green Bay or Cincinnati which I would not call a small market team can compete. If you factor in the Dayton TV market (or at least the counties which border the Cincinnati ADI) which overlaps to a large degree with Cincinnati, you have a pretty large media market that has access to the Cincinnati media.

Green Bay is pretty remote. It's at least 100 miles to Milwaukee. And the small cities you mentioned may add to the population but not significantly. Green Bay's metro has maybe 300,00 and you might be able to double that with the other cities mentioned. That still is not a large base of people to tap into for filling a stadium. Yet, it fills up for most games which means a small market team can flourish.

Look at the NHL. Teams in smaller markets in Canada like Winnipeg and Edmonton or Ottawa do just fine. And Quebec City is going to get a team again and that too is a small market by North American standards.

The bottom line is that a small market can support a team if it is properly marketed and managed.

[kjbrill]

The Packers have done a fine job for many years. But there have been several times they were in financial trouble. I believe several years ago they actually played some home games in Milwaukee in an attempt to keep revenues up.

There is one thing which sets Green Bay apart, they have been a publicly owned, non-profit corporation since their founding in 1923. There currently are 364,000 owners of the Green Bay Packers - the shareholders, and the Board of Directors is the owner of record. How can you have a more loyal fan base other than the owners? And a non-profit at that, meaning revenues must be spent to offset expenses. Their 5th stock offering, in 2012, was for the purpose of getting revenue to expand and refurbish Lambeau Field, and added 250,000 new stockholders. They are unique and can hardly be compared to any other franchise in the NFL.

Of course what else is there to do in Green Bay? Milwaukee may be 100 miles away, but to football fans that is nothing. Ohio State is 100 miles from Cincinnati, but I will guarantee you legions of Ohio State supporters make the trip to Columbus. Not only Columbus but how about Ann Arbor?

Then those Michigan State upstarts had to spoil everyone's apple barrel this year. BTW, did you notice where the Michigan State coach, Mark Dantonio, who has been on a torrid run there, winning 4 straight years over rival Michigan (What the?), previously coached - Cincinnati.

[kjbrill]

Before you drown in your beer trying to figure out why the Bengals can't win a playoff game, count your blessings. You could be a Cleveland Browns fan, OMGD!

There are few fans more loyal than Cleveland Browns fans. I admit, when a young fellow in the early days of fuzzy TV, when the opportunity presented itself to watch the Browns and a fellow by the name of Jim Brown, I was glued to the set. I also later enjoyed O.J. Simpson, his fancy footwork, elusiveness, and speed. To me they are the two greatest football players I have ever seen. I disregard O.J.'s later problems, I am just talking football here.

But when it comes to the Woody Hayes school of football, 2 yards and a cloud of dust, Jim Brown was the best. I remember so many plays where everyone in the stadium knew he was going to get the ball. So what, he could drag a half dozen defenders on his back.

What I don't understand is why Clevelanders did not lynch Art Modell when he moved the original Browns out of Cleveland to Baltimore. He had already maneuvered Paul Brown out of the team he founded and which still bears his name! Then he takes the entire team to Baltimore! The Cleveland Browns are now in Baltimore and called the Ravens? They should have strung him up.

So Bengals fans cheer up, you could be Browns fans.

[kjbrill]

The Bengals are so inept, the Washington Redskins hired Jay Gruden as their head coach. What do you want to bet someone also hires Mike Zimmer? He says no, but when that offer comes in will be hard to turn down.

Just the kind of offers you get for coaching a losing team.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

The Bengals are so inept

And that's why I'm a Steelers fan haha.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Guess you didn't watch that 49ers game the other night!

Yes, I agree Green Bay itself is a small market town. But get your map out and take a close look. Green Bay is off a bay/inlet of Lake Michigan. It is not like they are out on the trundra somewhere. Milwaukee, which doesn't have a team is how far away? Look at the other significant manufacturing centers such as Manitowoc, Sheboygan and Fond du Lac close buy. I don't deny they have to sell Green Bay, and have done a very good job at it.

Green Bay does fight the same battle as the Bengals. And they win their share. But recognize the entire state has two professional football and baseball teams.

Anyone who watched the game would recognize it as the epic battle that it was in which SF squeeked out of there with a win. It was very much in contrast to the Bungles in the Jungle just a few hours earlier. Green Bay has been to 3 and won 2 Super Bowls in the last 20 years. Green Bay is more than 100 miles from Milwaukee which is actually closer to the enormous City of Chicago. Green Bay is a TINY market, yet they have done a remarkable job at gaining and retaining relevance in the NFL. Cincinnati's struggle for marketability and relevance is a relative cakewalk. It's also a total copout.

And, actually, being a Browns fan is in some ways much better than being a Bengals fan. The one thing you'll rarely hear around Cleveland is the excuse about being small or mid-market. The blame for them being crappy almost always falls exactly where it should: Directly on the front office.

[Misfit Toy]

Marvin Lewis is just hanging on for the paycheck. He has to be. I mean, he knows the odds he'll land another NFL coaching job are almost nil, and he's obviously capable of swallowing lots of pride in terms of having the longest coaching tenure without winning one single playoff game (and not even coming close to winning one). A coach with more self-respect would have acknowledged at some point they couldn't take such a team any farther & resigned.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by Misfit Toy

Marvin Lewis is just hanging on for the paycheck. He has to be. I mean, he knows the odds he'll land another NFL coaching job are almost nil, and he's obviously capable of swallowing lots of pride in terms of having the longest coaching tenure without winning one single playoff game (and not even coming close to winning one). A coach with more self-respect would have acknowledged at some point they couldn't take such a team any farther & resigned.

I think anyone who becomes a head coach in the NFL believes he can do the job. Any if the criteria for a successful career is winning a playoff game, he has plenty of company at being inept. The main job of a head coach is player motivation and hiring position coaches. The position coaches do the actual job of managing the football game. If Marvin is so bad, why are his position coaches, Mike Zimmer and Jay Gruden being pursued for head coaching jobs by other teams. It is possible both of them may be gone next year. Then Marvin has a real problem, he has to replace both of them. Zimmer is acknowledged as being responsible for bring the Bengals defense to a level it has not seen for years. Gruden has had an easier job with many more weapons at his disposal.

But that other job expected of a head coach - player motivation. Just how is he supposed to do that? Is he suppose to ra-ra and pat them on the butt after a good play like Pee Wee league? How do you motivate a bunch of overpaid prima donnas, several of which make more than you do? Do you sit them on the bench for lack of effort? Fat chance of that. With the money they are making you play them or else. So what are your tools to motivate them, appeal to their pride?

You talk about Marvin's pride and self-respect. How about the players? They might not be the brightest bulbs in the cupboard, but they do know Super Bowls are few and far between. They are primarily in it for the money, and they know what brings that - All-Pro selection, etc. I was watching a game this past weekend and the network analyst gap-filler bunch had Randy Moss on as a guest. Randy Moss, one of the biggest I's to ever play the game. The look at me Randy Moss, I am the greatest! The best I have seen at that since the days of Cassius Clay (excuse me Muhammad Ali).

The NFL management brought this on themselves, and have fostered it on us fans. They have other good company, mainly MLB. Together, they have elevated professional sports salaries to an obscene level. And then they think they can control these players - they must be smoking the now on the market weed. The players are in control, the management is just hanging on for dear life.

Marvin Lewis came to the Bengals with a background of defensive coordinator for the Ravens in a Super Bowl year. Does something ring a bell? How about Mike Zimmer this year?

I was just looking at another post and noticed the name of Sam Wyche, to me one of the Great Innovators of the game. We hired him as a third-string QB and then back as head coach. How often does that happen?

But Sam had the privilege of the best QB in Bengals team history - Ken Anderson. I certainly do not want to fault Boomer Esiason, as he was tremendous, more than once for the Bengals. But Ken Anderson, coming out of tiny Augustana College in Illinois was my favorite. Ken did not have a super long arm, but he had an accurate one. And some of his receivers were the best. The on which sticks out in my mind is Isaac Curtis, a world class sprinter. If you hit Isaac over the middle, forget it touchdown, noone would catch him.

So we can lament the Bengals have not won a recent playoff game. Does that mean clean house and fire all of the coaching staff? I think not, do that and we will be right in there for the next decade with the Cleveland Browns. In fact they will probably kick our ass due to the fact they are following a building regime and we just went hog-wild.

[kjbrill]

With the announcement Zimmer is going to the Vikings as head coach that completes the duo with Jay Gruden going to the Redskins.

The Bengals may not know how to motivate players, but they do not have the same problem when it comes to coaches. Within hours of the announcement of the departure of Gruden and Zimmer they announced the promotion of coaches already in the organization to the positions of OC and DC. Promotion from within has to go a long way to establish loyalty within the organization. To me these are smart moves. Let your position coaches know they can advance and be rewarded.

Zimmer was smart and tried to take his assistant Paul Guenther with him to Minnesota as his DC. But the Bengals jumped right in there and promoted Guenther to DC here. They likely had his agent on the line with an offer soon as they realized the Vikings were serious about Zimmer.

Give the Bengals credit for having some smarts. They have the talent nucleus for a good team. There is no reason to start over with totally different offensive or defensive schemes. Put someone in charge the players already know and have them carry out the same program. It will pay off eventually.