Streetcar skeptic to believer (Cincinnati, Morrow: purchasing, airports, transport)

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

I live in the Cincinnati city limits and have for the last 16 years. I firmly believe that if every single dollar that's gone into the streetcar project from the beginning had been devoted to infrastructure and other improvements in declining neighborhoods, downtown would still be experiencing most if not all the revitalization it is, and the ENTIRE City of Cincinnati would be much better off. And I say this recognizing the importance of the condition of the urban core to not just the whole city, but to the entire Cincinnati metro area.

Bravo.

[cincydave8]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

I live in Covington. It matters to anyone living near Hamilton county or even the metro area. The fiscal health of the city is what drives the entire region. And since I've heard rumors bandied about regarding extending the Street Car into NKY including Covington, I have an interest in how tax payer dollars are going to be spent.

The Street Car is not in the Black. Where do you come up with this "fact"? I've yet to see a single report in the media or hear anyone from City Hall on the radio mention that the Street Car is either breaking even or making money.

I've posted the link multiple times but here it is again: Riders Complying With Streetcar Fare Policy & Summer Pass Coming Soon | WVXU

"Through the end of February, Cincinnati's streetcar operating budget continued to show a $158,304 surplus"

Was also reported by Biz Courier and WCPO. Should get a more recent update soon, probably this week.

Again, built on time, on budget, 1% of the city's budget and in the black.

[Wilson513]

It is sad to think that anyone other than a crooked politician could believe that the Connector ride is operating "in the black."

Its like a guy who is unemployed using his tax refund check to pay the minimum credit card payment and having $2 left over being "in the black."

Just forget it. We are stuck with it, it will drain money from other meritorious projects and we can't do any more about it than we can about the PB Stadium. Crooks will be crooks.

[unusualfire]

^Do you work there? If not how on earth could you possibly know what the finances are.

If it was in the Red the Mayor would come and and say I told you so.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

It is sad to think that anyone other than a crooked politician could believe that the Connector ride is operating "in the black."

Its like a guy who is unemployed using his tax refund check to pay the minimum credit card payment and having $2 left over being "in the black."

Just forget it. We are stuck with it, it will drain money from other meritorious projects and we can't do any more about it than we can about the PB Stadium. Crooks will be crooks.

Exactly. People for some reason look for every excuse to demonize a private company, but take the gov at their word when it comes to idiotic projects like a streetcar. Your post is going to go over everyone's head though.

[WILWRadio]

Aside from the report by WVXU claiming it is turning a small profit, every other report I've read or heard on the radio indicates the opposite.

[Wilson513]

OK, good point. Let's try this again.

Government uses fund accounting. Not like regular accounting. They establish a fund and any resources they allocate to the fund are its "revenues." That could be fares from riders or proceeds from borrowing, or grants from government or transfers from the widows and orphans fund.

The the expenses they pay from that fund are its "expenses." If they pay the utility bill and the insurance from the fund, they are expenses. But, if they pay for the repairs to the junkass streetcars from a different account those repairs are not "expenses."

So when a politician tells you that they are "in the black" all that means is that the funding sources they allocated to the fund have not YET been entirely consumed by the expenses they have chosen to pay from that fund.

It is complete BS and has no place in public discourse on the operating economies of a transportation system.

And, yes, I was a CPA.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

OK, good point. Let's try this again.

Government uses fund accounting. Not like regular accounting. They establish a fund and any resources they allocate to the fund are its "revenues." That could be fares from riders or proceeds from borrowing, or grants from government or transfers from the widows and orphans fund.

The the expenses they pay from that fund are its "expenses." If they pay the utility bill and the insurance from the fund, they are expenses. But, if they pay for the repairs to the junkass streetcars from a different account those repairs are not "expenses."

So when a politician tells you that they are "in the black" all that means is that the funding sources they allocated to the fund have not YET been entirely consumed by the expenses they have chosen to pay from that fund.

It is complete BS and has no place in public discourse on the operating economies of a transportation system.

And, yes, I was a CPA.

Good explanation. I think most people don't understand the inner workings of this stuff and can't even fathom that local leaders would mislead them.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

OK, good point. Let's try this again.



So when a politician tells you that they are "in the black" all that means is that the funding sources they allocated to the fund have not YET been entirely consumed by the expenses they have chosen to pay from that fund.

This is not a secret. Every form of transportation in the United States is heavily subsidized. Roads, airports, buses -- everything. The fuel the vehicles consume is often subsidized.


The amazing thing is that nobody remembers what these things were like back when they did make money -- or can fathom that the current state of affairs is preferable. Back when the streetcar companies were for-profit monopolies, they were absolutely hated. The owners pulled all sorts of scams. In the 1950s, when our system changed from streetcars to buses, the executives of the Cincinnati Transit Company engaged in a stock collusion with the company itself. Specifically, they did stock speculating and used the company's purchasing power to drive stock prices up and down for their personal benefit. These stocks had absolutely nothing to do with the business of running buses. So what was essentially the public dollar was used to absorb risk.


Right now, privatization schemes open the door to all sorts of problems like this. In the case of our streetcar system, SORTA hired Transdev to operate the streetcars. They are responsible for hiring a number of workers who quite apparently aren't very good at their job. We have a number of lead-footed streetcar operators who have caused accidents. I witnessed one in person and now we hear that there was an accident in the maintenance yard late Sunday night.

[mike1003]

Originally Posted by cincydave8

I've posted the link multiple times but here it is again: Riders Complying With Streetcar Fare Policy & Summer Pass Coming Soon | WVXU

"Through the end of February, Cincinnati's streetcar operating budget continued to show a $158,304 surplus"

Was also reported by Biz Courier and WCPO. Should get a more recent update soon, probably this week.

Again, built on time, on budget, 1% of the city's budget and in the black.

185K out of how many millions of wasted dollars. It will NEVER be paid off