Streetcar skeptic to believer (Columbus, Dayton: department stores, stations, money)

[austiNati]

Hell I walk to work when it's nice enough out; transit doesn't even do anything for me personally.

[WILWRadio]

The people that use the Choo Choo should be paying for it. Not the entire city. Raise the riding fee to $5 a ride and let's see if it can break even.

Busses move far more people in Cincinnati than the Choo Choo. In fact, SORTA is already having some serious budget problems and the end result is a lot of routes may be cut and service reduced on others. A lot of people rely solely upon the bus to get to and from work and to get their basic daily errands done. Bus service is a VITAL service to the metro area while the Choo Choo is an extravagant luxury that unfortunately was foisted upon the tax payers of Cincinnati.

I simply point out the facts about this. Why aren't more people riding it? It's averaging something like half of the number of riders daily that is needed to break even. Clearly its a bust. Why can't you comprehend this?

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by austiNati

Haha, gotta love WILWRadio and Wilson's classic Cincy logic.

"The streetcar is a waste. It doesn't cover enough ground to be a true transit system""

"Don't spend another dime expanding the streetcar, making it a true transit system"

"I don't ride transit, so that means NO ONE will ever opt for alternative modes of commuting"

"We should invest in Metro instead, yet that is a waste as well, because sometimes there's empty buses"

"Cincy is already doing it right, we have no transit, high employment inaccessibility, and stagnant population/economic growth"

Y'all are the reason why we can't have nice things.

LOL. Hate to let the facts get in the way of your opinion but I will have to set the record straight for the uninitiated. I am from Connecticut. Specifically the Hartford area. We have extensive rail line service to the NYC area and to some degree, Boston with AMTRAK. That region has the population density over a wide area to make REAL rail service a more viable service. No Choo Choo service to be found in any metro area of the Northeast other than Buffalo which like Cincinnati has a near useless Choo Choo that costs the taxpayers of Buffalo and Erie County a good chunk of change.

I am on record as saying at some point, a rail line may be useful between Dayton and Cincinnati. Existing lines should be used and shared with the Freight services that currently use these lines. But with the development taking place between Cincy and Dayton, it might be possible to have a commuter trains running to and from each city on a daily basis if more people from Dayton take jobs in Cincinnati.

I should add. Cities like Kansas City or even Indianapolis are able to annex land to expand the tax base either by more residential development or also expanded business development. Cincinnati seems to be stagnant in this regard and thus the population growth is much slower and results in less tax revenue growth. If Cincinnati can find a way to expand its borders and start growing its population perhaps then it can capably finance more public works projects other than basic services. Until then, the deficit is going to grow and services are likely to be cut back if they are not reigned in.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

LOL. Hate to let the facts get in the way of your opinion but I will have to set the record straight for the uninitiated. I am from Connecticut. Specifically the Hartford area. We have extensive rail line service to the NYC area and to some degree, Boston with AMTRAK. That region has the population density over a wide area to make REAL rail service a more viable service. No Choo Choo service to be found in any metro area of the Northeast other than Buffalo which like Cincinnati has a near useless Choo Choo that costs the taxpayers of Buffalo and Erie County a good chunk of change.

I am on record as saying at some point, a rail line may be useful between Dayton and Cincinnati. Existing lines should be used and shared with the Freight services that currently use these lines. But with the development taking place between Cincy and Dayton, it might be possible to have a commuter trains running to and from each city on a daily basis if more people from Dayton take jobs in Cincinnati.

I should add. Cities like Kansas City or even Indianapolis are able to annex land to expand the tax base either by more residential development or also expanded business development. Cincinnati seems to be stagnant in this regard and thus the population growth is much slower and results in less tax revenue growth. If Cincinnati can find a way to expand its borders and start growing its population perhaps then it can capably finance more public works projects other than basic services. Until then, the deficit is going to grow and services are likely to be cut back if they are not reigned in.

Has there even been a shot at Cincinnati / Hamilton County consolidation?

It's funny, I think a lot of CT cities have the same problem where they basically got boxed in, their inner cities became unattractive and once that happened the area as a whole became less attractive. City/county consolidation would probably work wonders there, too. Maybe Hartford should have tried building a choo choo a decade ago.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Has there even been a shot at Cincinnati / Hamilton County consolidation?

It's funny, I think a lot of CT cities have the same problem where they basically got boxed in, their inner cities became unattractive and once that happened the area as a whole became less attractive. City/county consolidation would probably work wonders there, too. Maybe Hartford should have tried building a choo choo a decade ago.

Yup. Hartford is very close to being bankrupt because the cost of running the city continues to rise and it can't grow fast enough (population base or tax revenue) to keep pace with the spending by the city government. I see Cincinnati is starting to show the same signs of fiscal irresponsibility and decreases in city services are on the horizon if things don't change. The Choo Choo is not helping matters since it is already several million in debt (operating expenses) and will require several million dollars more than was first projected to operate on a day to day basis.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by WILWRadio

Yup. Hartford is very close to being bankrupt because the cost of running the city continues to rise and it can't grow fast enough (population base or tax revenue) to keep pace with the spending by the city government. I see Cincinnati is starting to show the same signs of fiscal irresponsibility and decreases in city services are on the horizon if things don't change. The Choo Choo is not helping matters since it is already several million in debt (operating expenses) and will require several million dollars more than was first projected to operate on a day to day basis.

So is there actually a faction that's really pushing for city/county consolidation? That and annexation have done wonder for a lot of the cities in the west and south.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

So is there actually a faction that's really pushing for city/county consolidation? That and annexation have done wonder for a lot of the cities in the west and south.

I have not heard anything of this nature happening in Cincinnati. Cincinnati, like Hartford, is comprised of dozens of suburbs which mostly have their own identity and prefer to handle their own services with their own local government. And I don't think Annexation should be forced though if voters agree to it then it is something that needs to be considered and implemented if Cincinnati wants to avoid going into a fiscal pit like Detroit and now Hartford.

Consolidation is a pretty good idea. I think that has been tried in Hartford or at least talked about. EMS for example I believe is now being shared by several towns and saves each town involved, money. 911 services may be able to consolidate as well and provided to multiple towns.

The Choo Choo OTOH is something only a handful of people benefit by and the expenses associated with running it and maintaining it can't be borne by any other area city or town. That makes it essential for the city to find a way to cut the losses with it either by reducing service or finding a way to attract more riders. Raising the cost to ride would help and then the people that claim they really want it will have to put their money where their mouth is.

[Wilson513]

Consolidation and the choo choo are really the same problem. Every governmental retainer, councils administrators, staff etc, wants to control their own little fiefdom to maintain their own little power base. Hence no consolidation. Same for the choo choo. Our council wants to claim a public "improvement" they can call their own.

Who could claim "safe streets" or "pothole free roads?"

[Wilson513]

Cincinnati City Council needs to pass next year's streetcar operating budget by the end of the month - or the streetcar will halt in its tracks.
The question: Are there enough votes to pass the budget, which at this point clocks in at $4.6 million -- more than anyone ever predicted? That's $400,000 more than the previous highest projection.

Under budget, on time and in the black. (If you use politispeak as your first language instead of English)

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by Wilson513

Under budget, on time and in the black. (If you use politispeak as your first language instead of English)

Fox 19 Live Feed again downtown. 6:50 AM. Street Car completely empty again.