Cincinnati becomes largest economy in Ohio (Columbus, Cleveland: how much, home, neighborhoods)

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by motorman

You're absolutely right and it's important, but being overlooked in this discussion. Essentially, it's Cincinnati's and Columbus' core counties that have enabled their metros to become Ohio's two largest economies. Rather than being just a minor reshuffling of the deck, this new ranking represents a sea change in the way business now operates in the state and it isn't likely to change in the near future.

What's being overlooked (read: ignored) is the fact that 14-16 counties' worth of population and GDP is being compared to 5 counties' worth. If the core counties of Cincy and CBus are so economically titanic, why include the other dozen as any sort of economic factor? Could it be that all of them are needed in order to eek out what amounts to less that 1% over and above the output of a much smaller, 5 county area? Naw, couldn't be...

[unusualfire]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

What's being overlooked (read: ignored) is the fact that 14-16 counties' worth of population and GDP is being compared to 5 counties' worth. If the core counties of Cincy and CBus are so economically titanic, why include the other dozen as any sort of economic factor? Could it be that all of them are needed in order to eek out what amounts to less that 1% over and above the output of a much smaller, 5 county area? Naw, couldn't be...

Stop it. This is a Cincinnati board. You don't see us up there in the Cleveland board boosting.

[motorman]

It's understandable why the new GDP stats have shaken up Clevelanders so badly and sent a number of them scrambling for ways to claim it isn't true, but it's much too late for all that. The radical reordering of Ohio business didn't just explode onto the scene w/o notice; corporate business has been the mainstay of Cincinnati for ages and the stats are there to prove it.

With the mindset that business is war by another name, Cincinnati competes with Columbus for dominance far more than it does with Cleveland. Obviously, Cincy's new status as Ohio #1 business economy isn't carved in stone; Cbus is moving up to secure this coveted title for itself sometime in the future. However, that hasn't happened yet and it may never happen if CIN-DAY is ever designated an MSA. Meanwhile, here in the present, the spotlight is centered on Cincy's GDP upset.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Stop it. This is a Cincinnati board. You don't see us up there in the Cleveland board boosting.

Actually you would... we never created our own Amazon thread so we used the Cleveland thread, so they experienced a lot of Cincy boosterism recently.

I'd say it's only fair that CLE people boost here, although to be honest this comparison isn't fair unless Akron/Canton are included for Cleveland and Dayton is included for Cincy

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by SWOH

Actually you would... we never created our own Amazon thread so we used the Cleveland thread, so they experienced a lot of Cincy boosterism recently.

I'd say it's only fair that CLE people boost here, although to be honest this comparison isn't fair unless Akron/Canton are included for Cleveland and Dayton is included for Cincy

There will never be a level of comparison that everyone thinks is totally fair. I'm not sure why adding more cities would make it more fair than it is now with straight MSA. Only Cleveland's GDP changes significantly at the CSA level (Dayton is not part of Cincy's MSA or CSA at present), and I personally think CSA is a terrible way to judge core city local influence. Almost no one uses it for anything beyond media market. Business interests almost universally use either MSA or core-city designations.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

Absolutely. Cleveland,Akron,Youngstown,canton, northeast Ohio is a much larger interconnected region in all aspects compared to the rest of the state. Nearly half the states population (4.5 mil) lives here. Let Cincy and cbus think what they want. Anyone who visits/travels or works in these areas know there is no comparison.

Youngstown is slightly closer to Pittsburgh than it is to Cleveland. The line for an MSA has to be drawn somewhere, so if Youngstown and its 500k~ people are tacked onto the MSA of a bigger nearby city, it should be Pittsburgh.


Also, all of any conceivable Cleveland MSA population and economic activity is in the state of Ohio, whereas much of Cincinnati's MSA is in Kentucky and a small fraction is in Indiana. About 350,000 people live in the Kentucky counties directly opposite the City of Cincinnati (Kentucky has significantly smaller counties than the Northwest Territory states). There are a fair number of good white collar jobs in those counties. The Indiana counties in the Cincinnati MSA have hardly any jobs.

[WILWRadio]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

Youngstown is slightly closer to Pittsburgh than it is to Cleveland. The line for an MSA has to be drawn somewhere, so if Youngstown and its 500k~ people are tacked onto the MSA of a bigger nearby city, it should be Pittsburgh.


Also, all of any conceivable Cleveland MSA population and economic activity is in the state of Ohio, whereas much of Cincinnati's MSA is in Kentucky and a small fraction is in Indiana. About 350,000 people live in the Kentucky counties directly opposite the City of Cincinnati (Kentucky has significantly smaller counties than the Northwest Territory states). There are a fair number of good white collar jobs in those counties. The Indiana counties in the Cincinnati MSA have hardly any jobs.

Actually one of the main criteria in establishing whether or not a community is part of a metro area is by commuting patterns for work. Thus, even if a community is more distant from one city vs. another, if a certain percentage of people in that more distant city happen to commute to the further metro area and it is a sufficient number to meet the criteria for defining it as a part of a metro area, then it becomes a part of that metro area.

I know someone that worked with the Censeless Bureau at one time and I could check with him to see if this has changed. Most likely not though.

[bjimmy24]

With my own family as a testament to this, I think historically, there is a lot of interplay between Pittsburgh-Youngstown-Cleveland, but don't ignore Akron-Canton in all this. We have a pretty well-documented pipeline from the Canton to Youngstown areas in my family, up until really just my parent's generation, who ended up in Cleveland.

FWIW on the cultural level, I see a lot more of Canton in Youngstown than I do either Pittsburgh or Cleveland.

[SenseofPlace]

Originally Posted by motorman

It's understandable why the new GDP stats have shaken up Clevelanders so badly and sent a number of them scrambling for ways to claim it isn't true, but it's much too late for all that. The radical reordering of Ohio business didn't just explode onto the scene w/o notice; corporate business has been the mainstay of Cincinnati for ages and the stats are there to prove it.

With the mindset that business is war by another name, Cincinnati competes with Columbus for dominance far more than it does with Cleveland. Obviously, Cincy's new status as Ohio #1 business economy isn't carved in stone; Cbus is moving up to secure this coveted title for itself sometime in the future. However, that hasn't happened yet and it may never happen if CIN-DAY is ever designated an MSA. Meanwhile, here in the present, the spotlight is centered on Cincy's GDP upset.

I don't think it has anyone "shaken up." There are some legitimate questions to be answered. Can Cincinnati really claim to be the largest IN Ohio when there's a significant portion of the population living in Kentucky? Don't count Indiana as there isn't much there. But Cleveland's MSA is entirely in the state of Ohio. Cleveland's MSA also takes up very little land, and big portions of its MSA are water. Having a Great Lake directly to your north doesn't bode well for expanding your GDP.

Whether you like to admit to it or not, Cleveland competes with Cincinnati a lot more than you want to give it credit for. And if Cleveland's MSA took up as much land as Cincinnati, you could include a much bigger number (GDP) in that with Cleveland far surpassing both Columbus and Cincy. You here about CINDAY all the time on this forum, but Cleveland is much more connected with Akron than Dayton is with Cincinnati. Gotta give credit where it's due.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by SenseofPlace

I don't think it has anyone "shaken up." There are some legitimate questions to be answered. Can Cincinnati really claim to be the largest IN Ohio when there's a significant portion of the population living in Kentucky? Don't count Indiana as there isn't much there. But Cleveland's MSA is entirely in the state of Ohio. Cleveland's MSA also takes up very little land, and big portions of its MSA are water. Having a Great Lake directly to your north doesn't bode well for expanding your GDP.

First of all to clarify things, my reference to Clevelanders being shaken up was intended to mean a number of forum members, rather than Cleveland in general. Next, rather than getting hung up on whether Cincinnati's economy is the largest IN Ohio, let's rephrase it to read that its economy is the largest of any Ohio city. Lastly, although Cincy's economy includes two other states, anyone can recognize how closely connected these surrounding areas are to Cincinnati, especially in NKY - wherein we're not talking about a population of people separated by some vast ocean, but a collection of communities no farther away from downtown Cincinnati than those across the Cuyahoga River from downtown Cleveland. To listen to some forum members, you'd think that the Queen City was recruiting a mercenary army of workers and stealing wealth from a foreign country.