Why is Cincinnati so negative compared to Cleveland and Columbus? (Akron: best city, apartment)

[Meridian12345]

Every thread here except the recent bengals ones is about things closing, fires, nostalgia, etc. To my mind Cincinnati is the best city in the state yet nearly nothing about development is ever posted here. Is it a local mindset thing or just a quirk of this forum?

[blickcd]

This is just a slow forum and the few regular posters have a lot of nostalgia for the 'good old days'.

I agree there is plenty of development, plenty of jobs for those who want to work. Housing costs have been going up fast though.

[TheProf]

I don't get the title of the thread. As a Clevelander, I very much like Cincy as a beautiful old city (by far the oldest of the 3-Cs) with lots of character, growth (esp downtown, OTR, Clifton Hts and Mt. Adams), great dramatic topography (love the hills, esp overlooking the Ohio River)... I like it much better than Columbus btw, although I don't hate Columbus (largely b/c of Ohio State and German Village, which is very cool). Short North is nice, but for some reason, it does not tickle my fancy -- that's just me. Overall, though, C-Bus just isn't my cup of tea.

[Natural510]

There was a dedicated contingency of Cincinnati posters (similar to Cleveland) on this forum a few years ago but they seem to have all moved on. When that kind of thing happens, it's usually people who grew up in a place visiting a forum to wax nostalgic about the past. It's not a reflection on the city itself.

[MPK21]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I don't get the title of the thread. As a Clevelander, I very much like Cincy as a beautiful old city (by far the oldest of the 3-Cs) with lots of character, growth (esp downtown, OTR, Clifton Hts and Mt. Adams), great dramatic topography (love the hills, esp overlooking the Ohio River)... I like it much better than Columbus btw, although I don't hate Columbus (largely b/c of Ohio State and German Village, which is very cool). Short North is nice, but for some reason, it does not tickle my fancy -- that's just me. Overall, though, C-Bus just isn't my cup of tea.

Well, it's not so much that Cincinnati is ''by far'' the old of the 3-Cs given that it was settled in 1788, while Cleveland was settled in 1796, and Columbus 1812.

I think it's that Cincinnati was the first ''big'' city of the 3-Cs.

[jlawrence01]

Originally Posted by Natural510

There was a dedicated contingency of Cincinnati posters (similar to Cleveland) on this forum a few years ago but they seem to have all moved on. When that kind of thing happens, it's usually people who grew up in a place visiting a forum to wax nostalgic about the past. It's not a reflection on the city itself.

Agreed. There were several solid posters who over time were run off the forum. Personally, I found a lot of the information to be inaccurate.

[Regajohn]

Because it's a lot easier to complain than it is to actually improve your life, or your surroundings ...

Heck, you're going to the super bowl ... although I'm sure somebody will complain that "Bengals" is offensive, as it is exclusionary to the other eight subspecies of tigers.

Believe me, it's not just Cincinnati it's human nature.
There are those who only see white, and there are those who only see black, and then there are those of us who understand that a person, a city, and most everything else is likely to have good points and not so good points.

[TheProf]

Originally Posted by MPK21

Well, it's not so much that Cincinnati is ''by far'' the old of the 3-Cs given that it was settled in 1788, while Cleveland was settled in 1796, and Columbus 1812.

I think it's that Cincinnati was the first ''big'' city of the 3-Cs.

By that, I mean Cincinnati was a substantial, even major city way before the others -- starting in the early 1800s... Yeah, Cleveland was technically 'founded' in 1796, but didn't even reach 100 or so residents in its early years, and was pretty much a burgh until after the Civil War when entrepreneurs like Rockefeller (Standard Oil) and Sherwin and Williams (paint, obviously) among others, fueled the city's industrial revolution. By that time, though, Cincinnati was an established, aging big (by mid/late 1800s standards) city.

[WRnative]

One great feature of Wikipedia is that it shows historic census numbers. Cleveland and Cincinnati are very comparable today because they have approximately the same land areas. However, I don't know the history of annexations and Cleveland has had some substantial ones, especially in the 19th century.


Cleveland passed Cincinnati in population by 1900 (381,768; 325,902). The population of both cities peaked in 1950, with Cleveland posting a much greater population peak (914,808; 503,998). Cleveland also showed a much greater population collapse to current levels (372,164; 309,317). Both cities, with much smaller land areas than cities such as Columbus, gain their heft by being the government and cultural hubs of much larger counties and MSAs and CSAs.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland


In 1860, Cincinnati was the 7th largest U.S. city and Cleveland was 21. We often forget that the population of the U.S. in 1860, at the start of the Civil War, was only 31.4 million, which makes the carnage of the Civil War even more shocking (Civil War American deaths likely exceeded according to recent scholarship the deaths in all other American wars combined).



https://www.biggestuscities.com/1860


In 1950, Cleveland was the 7th largest U.S. city, Cincinnati was 17 and Columbus was 28.


https://www.biggestuscities.com/1950


Today, Columbus with its much greater land area than Cleveland and Cincinnati, is 15, Cleveland is 54, and Cincinnati is 65.


https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities



Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) has a land area over 10 percent greater than Hamilton County (Cincinnati) and a population that is much larger (1,264,817; 830,639).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_County,_Ohio


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_County,_Ohio


The much more massive growth spurt in Cleveland and Cuyahoga County in the first half of the 20th century defined much of Cleveland's exceptionalism, especially in cultural institutions, as it benefited from the legacy of great 20th century industrial fortunes, particularly from Rockefeller's Standard Oil (Standard Oil of Ohio was headquartered in Cleveland until the 1980s), but also from the steel and auto industries.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil_of_Ohio


Cleveland also benefited immeasurably from the mayoralty of Tom Johnson, typically ranked as one of the greatest mayors in U.S. history and who literally shaped modern Cleveland, and the determined, grandiose, highly leveraged (ultimately fatally) entrepreneurship of the Vans.


//www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...m-johnson.html



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Sweringen_brothers


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_City_Center



I believe that Tom Johnson's visionary leadership still inspires Cleveland, and some of its mayors, to tackle difficult tasks with vigor. George Voinovich's championing of Playhouse Square and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Michael White's Gateway Project are examples; these successful projects in the late 20th century greatly redefined modern Cleveland and launched a downtown population boom. So positivism in Cleveland perhaps stems from a history of at times exceptional leadership.


https://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g...usesquare.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axceaflECR8


https://www.playhousesquare.org/abou...partment-tower



https://www.cleveland.com/popmusic/2...en_george.html



https://case.edu/ech/articles/m/mayo...ichael-r-white


https://neo-trans.blog/2022/01/21/do...ming-to-light/


Prior to the Gateway Project, Cleveland's arena was located halfway between Cleveland and Akron and Cleveland was in danger of losing the Indians MLB franchise. Michael White also saved the Cleveland Browns NFL franchise and built First Energy Stadium.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FirstEnergy_Stadium


This history of exceptionally consequential, positive leadership likely influences C-D posters, and certainly influences discussions in the Cleveland forum.


What are the similar examples of exemplary mayoral leadership in Cincinnati? How did they transform Cincinnati and shape its future?

[TheProf]

^Good stuff, WRnative ... not to hijack this thread, which is about so-called negative perceptions of Cincinnati, which I have expressed, don't share, because Cincy is a really cool place in my book...

... but WR makes a great point about the progressive, reformist burst Cleveland had at the turn of the 20th Century, and mayor Tom Johnson -- a streetcar entrepreneur who pushed through cheap fares and many pioneering 'City Beautiful' reforms that were in vogue at the time -- many generating from the Chicago (World Columbian) Fair of 1893, ... one of which was Daniel Burnham's 'Group Plan' for public buildings around a central mall downtown...

... and dare I say I certainly glossed over several other boom companies of Cleveland's industrial era, such as Republic Steel, Warner & Swasey large optical/observatory telescope builders, Union-Carbide, early car manufacturers (Winton, Peerless, among others), White Motors, TRW, Parker-Haniffin, Eaton, Tinnerman Products (inventors of the famed Speed-Nut), Kirby vaccuum cleaners, etc, etc.,

... Also, Cleveland developed the finest waste treatment/municipal sewage system in the country and world... The City also saw the amazing cultural/educational growth in beautiful University Circle coupled with Rockefeller's 1890s Cultural Gardens and gorgeous parkway bridges; the amazing Playhouse Square (then early motion picture) theaters in the early 1920s ... and, perhaps, the crowning achievement was the Van Sweringen's underground Union Station topped by symbolic (tallest outside NYC) Terminal Tower and the retail city-within-a-city, pioneering garden suburb and shopping district: Shaker Heights & Shaker Square, respectively, both being connected by the first leg of today's rapid transit system.

It all came together rather quickly....not to say Cleveland didn't have any problems with weak zoning -- too many factories and railroads encroaching on the lakeshore and many residential areas (as well as completely encircling downtown creating an island), unregulated smoke and soot from factories and, of course, that chemically fouled Cuyahoga River which caught fire several times -- most infamously in 1969, bringing Cleveland to world humiliation.

I'm sure Cincinnati had its issues, too, over the years (... the famed unbuilt subway being one). But all-in-all, it's a pretty cool city, too.