Historic Buildings-City Bulldoze happy? (Cincinnati, Dayton: apartment complex, condo, crime)

[restorationconsultant]

It seems like the city is getting bulldoze happy? I learned that 2 houses on baymiller were bulldozed recently . Both were very restorable, and sit in a designated Dayton Street Historic District. In just about any other city every effort would have been made to save them. In seems like, unless it's in OTR, the city is bulldoze happy? Clearly the city needs to develop some sort of plan to get restorable properties in responsible hands , perhaps with protective covenants. Given what it cost to demo a property and at that point the city has control of it, it would be much more economical to sell it to someone who would be preapproved to buy it. Especially in areas that are turning around, A vacant lot adds no value in a historic district. Where is the Historic Preservation Community on this?

[goyguy]

They're actively engaged in that noble struggle, but the battle is steeply uphill. (Visit cincinnatipreservation.org) It's all well and good that Dayton St is in a "designated historic" area, but it's also a known crime hotbed.
In Walnut Hills, the old Presbyterian Church at a focal point of the neighborhood was recently razed except for its bell tower to make way for a parking lot. When Avondale's Rockdale Temple on the street of the same name relocated along with many of its congregants to suburban Amberley Village, its grand stone edifice (inscribed across the front with "...and mine shall be a house of prayer for all people...") stood vacant for a few years only to also meet the wrecking ball. St George Church, at the boundary of Clifton and Corryville, narrowly averted disaster a few months back when fire broke out in one of its twin steeples and spread to the other. "Everyone" wants to save it - a community group succeeded in blocking Walgreen's from taking the property - but no one knows what to do with it.
Substantial portions of the city are undergoing demographic shifts at present. While nowhere near the scope and violence of the '60s-70s transitions along the Reading Rd corridor (Avondale and Bond Hill; Roselawn to some extent at the time) and in Walnut Hills, it's still enough to make a lot of people - okay, White folks - uneasy. Numerous communities, Price Hill and Carthage to name but two, are too busy trying to stanch out-migration and achieve a livable status quo to put much energy into worrying about any given abandoned property, no matter how historically significant. They'd just as soon see the 'dozers come in.
After four decades of attempts that fell short, "3CDC" and the city and myriad other groups are pulling out all the stops to give OTR a full makeover. Northside and some eastern neighborhoods i.e. Oakley are gentrifying with a base of good housing stock. The areas which persist in being "desirable," Mt Lookout and northern Clifton for example, completely lack fixer-uppers. But the majority of the city is in a bad way, not "on the upswing" by any stretch of the imagination. No one wants to invest in refurbishing a classic example of any kind of architecture if the surrounding area shows no signs of "turning around."
The sites of a vast apartment complex in Bond Hill that had devolved into a Crime Central of sorts, and of a factory in Carthage, are now home to unimaginative subdivisions of cheesy houses of the sort that can be seen "anywhere you look" in sprawl-infested suburbia. In a bid to attract wary buyers, the city has offered tax abatements lasting up to fifteen years. While the jury is still out on this, there are few indications that the goal of the incentive will be reached. Given public response which has been lukewarm if that, it makes perfect sense that offering enticements to save a house or rebuild a church or what have you isn't in the cards.

[Hartwell Girl]

There is a GREAT story on this link.... Building Cincinnati: Search results for kent evans this is a Hartwell resident who did this great house in Price hill. LOVE this story!!

[restorationconsultant]

Originally Posted by goyguy

It's all well and good that Dayton St is in a "designated historic" area, but it's also a known crime hotbed.
.

I was curious as to the last time you visited that area, Ive spent a lot of timeover there lately while house hunting and I've found a totally different experience, maybe i'm more used to "urban" neighborhoods than you are, but most of the houses on Dayton are restored or under restoration and you cant hardly touch anything on Dayton for less than 100K in fact one on the maket now for over 300k. There are some rough areas like 1900-2100 block of Colerain but Ive not seen a "criime hotbed". I've been there at several times of day and night and I dont see anything that bothers me and I've pretty much walked the entire neighorhood documenting the architecture.I have been following the area for several months on the data cincinnati site and while a see a lot of incidents east of central parkway I see few in that area, occaisional domestic report or petty theft, or dealing, but it seems to fairly isolated.

In fact I noticed there seems to be al lot more incidents around the university of Cincinnati area ,than that area.

I know the neighborhood had a bad reputation a few years ago, and proably deserved, but it looks like its coming back fast to me and Ive been working in historic neighborhoods acoss the midwest for 20 years now.

[Hartwell Girl]

Hey restorationconsultant...did you read the story with the above link I posted? Northside...has a great group of residents over there fighting for that neighborhood and their hard work is paying off. There is another story about some serious road construction getting started in Northside on that link too.

[restorationconsultant]

Originally Posted by Hartwell Girl

Hey restorationconsultant...did you read the story with the above link I posted? Northside...has a great group of residents over there fighting for that neighborhood and their hard work is paying off. There is another story about some serious road construction getting started in Northside on that link too.

Yes I did, I follow several Cincinnati blogs right now and I am writing a series of my own about the bulldozing of urban areas and proposing some solutions that have been very effective in other cities: http:///victorianantiquitiesanddesign.blogspot.com/2008/06/de-urbanization-bulldoze-effect-series.html (broken link)

The article shows that there are people trying to restore Urban Neighborhoods in Cincinnati, but demolition should really be a "last resort". I know coming from Indianapolis, we bulldozed many "close in" urban neighborhoods for parking, Now 20 years later those parking lots have very expensive low rise condo projects on them but we now lack that "historic feel" of Cincinnati. Once its gone you can't bring it back

[esya]

I think the economic reason might be that for the current ratio of population (and/or tax dollars) compared to the number of buildings of interest to restore, Dayton would have fewer buildings to restore and Cincinnati would have many more.

Any ideas on this?

[hillside]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

Yes I did, I follow several Cincinnati blogs right now and I am writing a series of my own about the bulldozing of urban areas and proposing some solutions that have been very effective in other cities: http:///victorianantiquitiesanddesign.blogspot.com/2008/06/de-urbanization-bulldoze-effect-series.html (broken link)

The article shows that there are people trying to restore Urban Neighborhoods in Cincinnati, but demolition should really be a "last resort". I know coming from Indianapolis, we bulldozed many "close in" urban neighborhoods for parking, Now 20 years later those parking lots have very expensive low rise condo projects on them but we now lack that "historic feel" of Cincinnati. Once its gone you can't bring it back

the city should have never tore down the west end and camp washington.

[restorationconsultant]

I am just amazed that at a time when the last thing most cities would do is tear down a 100 yr old building that Cincinnati does it on a routine basis. Especially since most of thsoe buildings are far from being unrestorable.