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View Poll Results: SF: More like LA or Manhattan?
LA 132 41.51%
Manhattan 186 58.49%
Voters: 318. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-28-2015, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,084 posts, read 15,807,804 times
Reputation: 4049

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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post
Santa Monica is A LOT newer construction than Pac Heights which has been a bastion of old money wealth is this country since the 1800s. A lot of buildings along the Third Street Promenade are 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s construction.

Santa Monica had 53,500 people in 1940 and has 90k people today. It has nearly doubled in population in the post-war era, much of that in the 1940s. The look and feel of SM is decidely less "1920s" or earlier and more 1960s and beyond. That's not to say that SM is a brand new place, but it is to say relatively speaking, it is.

Fillmore St:
https://www.google.com/search?q=fill...+san+francisco

Third Street Promenade:
https://www.google.com/search?q=thir...F%3B1024%3B768

Santana Row:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sant...w=1366&bih=631

The Grove:
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+...w=1366&bih=631

You tell me which is one is least like the others.


Santa Monica:
https://www.google.com/search?q=sant...onica+downtown

Pacific Heights:
https://www.google.com/search?q=the+...ights+broadway


Are these similar to you?
Honestly those image links are useless.

The Grove and Santana Row are closed off malls while The Promenade is part of the street grid that city officials closed off the vehicle traffic. Huge difference. Santana Row is like a less cohesively built Paseo Colorado or Americana on Brand in Glendale - a mixed use mall. But instead if being built in an inner ring suburb / satellite city's urban core it is smack in the middle of San Joses pedestrian hostile sprawl.

I don't know much about Pacific Heights. Not sure how it compares to SM. Doubt "you couldn't fibd less similar neighborhoods" though, there probably are at least a few commonalities.

I am mostly just calling out your hyperbole and misinfo about LA. I Don't think that your opinion on the OP is outrageous, I just disagree.

Last edited by munchitup; 03-28-2015 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 03-28-2015, 07:56 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,636,271 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Only recent transplants use that term here and it's not common nor was it used historically.
My roommate uses it and he's multi gen raised in the city.
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Old 03-28-2015, 07:57 PM
 
34 posts, read 26,304 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post
I never said it wasn't similar to Pasadena - in fact 2-3 times now I have compared it to Pasadena. But it IS more akin to Pasadena or Walnut Creek or Palo Alto than it is to Pacific Heights. It's SO different from Pac Heights that it is more similar to Santana Row than Pac Heights. And btw, Santana Row is becoming very much like Pasadena, Walnut Creek, etc etc.

I think you've indicated I'm not all that unfamiliar with LA
I'm curious - where do you think
Ballard in Seattle falls on this spectrum? Closer to Santana Row or an established urban neighborhood?
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Old 03-28-2015, 07:59 PM
 
34 posts, read 26,304 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
Only recent transplants use that term here and it's not common nor was it used historically.
That's not true. I heard bridge and tunnel used as a common phrase in SF more than a decade ago.
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:00 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,636,271 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaCityTron View Post
I'm curious - where do you think
Ballard in Seattle falls on this spectrum? Closer to Santana Row or an established urban neighborhood?
I don't know Ballard at all. I've heard of it, that's it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:02 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,977 posts, read 32,531,418 times
Reputation: 13625
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
Wrong. There are alleys all over the place in SF. And there are garages in most SF buildings. Even the densest residential neighborhoods are full of side-street alleys and parking garages directly facing the street. Manhattan has none of this (in fact most of the Outer Boroughs have none of this).

Almost 100% of new construction in SF over the past 60 years or so has street-facing garages. In Manhattan, this is rare, and basically nonexistent in smaller buildings.
You clearly have not spent any time in SF if you think the city if full of traditional alleys. Again, show me where SF is full of alleys? Very few residential blocks have them and the one's that do exist basically act as a regular street with residences and are not say like Chicago or LA with garages and parking in the back.

Quote:
Which obviously shows (once again) than SF is closer to Santa Ana than to Manhattan. Same as with the parking and alleys. Manhattan residents walk and have lower transit orientation than in much of the Outer Boroughs, because they live next to work. But they still have higher transit orientation compared to SF than SF compared to SA.
And how does it show that?

Quote:
And you totally missed your own point. The point isn't transit orientation, it's non-auto orientation. Venice, Italy isn't like Irvine, CA because in both places most people don't take transit. In hyper-dense areas you walk or bike to work, which is why Chinatown in SF has lower transit orientation than more suburban neighborhoods in the Bay Area.
The point is the majority of people in SF aren't using their cars for work and likely for many other things too like residents in Santa Ana.
Quote:
I certainly will, but I'll also indulge in continuing to demolish your other non-arguments too.
Well I'm waiting but first please actually show me where all these alleys similar to Santa Ana are in SF.
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:04 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
18,977 posts, read 32,531,418 times
Reputation: 13625
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonelitist View Post
My roommate uses it and he's multi gen raised in the city.
I'm sure some of those wannabe NY types do use it but I've lived in the Bay Area a lot longer than you and know more natives and it's very uncommon. That is a NYC phrase so it's kind of pathetic anyone that really uses it.
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:06 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,636,271 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
Honestly those image links are useless.

The Grove and Santana Row are closed off malls while The Promenade is part of the street grid that city officials closed off the vehicle traffic. Huge difference.

I don't know much about Pacific Heights. Not sure how it compares to SM. Doubt "you couldn't fibd less similar neighborhoods" though, there probably are at least a few commonalities.

I am mostly just calling out your hyperbole and misinfo about LA. I Don't think that your opinion on the OP is outrageous, I just disagree.
Neither is a "closed" off interior mall, or set up like exterior malls with a lifestyle component as typically constructed in FL or the SE, for instance. But you're right, Third Street is integrated into the environment. I believe I already mentioned that. The Grove and Santana Row are a 2000s/2010s attempt to build new retail into a largely suburban environment.

But it's about as contrived as it gets for "urban shopping" and is a chain city that came about in the last couple of decades.

I used to go to SM a lot, and went out of my way to avoid Third Street, to be honest, because other streets/parts of SM are far more enjoyable, less touristy, and far more charming.

None of the aforementioned are akin to what one would find in SF. And I repeat, oddly before SM was brought up as a comparison to Pac Heights, which was about the most absurd thing I'd heard in a while.
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:12 PM
 
1,353 posts, read 1,636,271 times
Reputation: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
I'm sure some of those wannabe NY types do use it but I've lived in the Bay Area a lot longer than you and know more natives and it's very uncommon. That is a NYC phrase so it's kind of pathetic anyone that really uses it.
Is it pathetic when people refer to SF as "the city"?

Bridge and tunnel is used, in my experience, to describe the suburbanites that come in and stand in lines for all the touristy bars in the touristy areas (Union Square, Castro in particular...and the snobby folk in SF seem to be able to spot them and call them out from a mile away, myself included I suppose...maybe that makes me a NY wannable ). Maybe you stay in parts of SF that don't get raided by people in from East Bay or South Bay and so that phrase just isn't part of your daily routine? Not that I spend any more time in Union Square than I absolutely need to, but the Castro, yes.

Don't forget there are a lot of NYC transplants in SF that may have some sort of impact on the phrases used if they're actually applicable? Maybe that's how "The City" and "Bridge and Tunnel" got going many many years ago (well before my time in the city)?
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Old 03-28-2015, 08:13 PM
 
1,461 posts, read 2,101,057 times
Reputation: 1036
I've never heard the phrase "bridge and tunnel crowd" used in real life. Apparently it's a thing here though, from Wiki:



The goings on of suburbanites or those in other Bay Area cities (or other cities anywhere in the world for that matter) is just something that doesn't come up in discussion amongst my group. But either way, it seems like something the stereotypical upper crusty, evil, materialistic, out of touch house wife character in a rom-com would say.
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