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Perhaps there can be some consensus between the 2 sides:
1) DC (the city), minus the federal government, is basically a "beta" city, like Bos or Atl and below the "supercities" LA, CHI, NYC.
An MSA of 5-8 million vs. 15-20mil. GWAC basically illustrates that.
2) However, if you are debating DC (the capital) vs. LA. It becomes a whole different animal. Then it becomes Obama vs. Spielberg. GWAC and the others city lists become irrelevant.
I think pretty much everyone would agree on the first and at least the majority (based on the poll) would also agree on the 2nd.
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This is pretty much what I'm saying, and why I think it's pretty much an exercise in futility to attempt to compare DC to any other U.S. city--its role as the nation's capital affords it powers and influence that no other U.S. city can possess, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
This is pretty much what I'm saying, and why I think it's pretty much an exercise in futility to attempt to compare DC to any other U.S. city--its role as the nation's capital affords it powers and influence that no other U.S. city can possess, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
I think you guys overstate the importance of DCs role as far as power and influence.
This is why DC doesnt top any rankings of importance or connectivity-because in reality, govt has an important role, but it doesnt have the only important role.
Government's role is more auxiliary to business, not more important than it.
Government's role is more auxiliary to business, not more important than it.
I don't know about that one. For much of the history of western civilization, government was the business. Kings owned land, lords rule over serfs, serfs worked the land, kings conquered more lands, stole riches, and then established a new feudal system, or kept the existing one with new overlords. Even with the rise of the mercantilism, it was governments that raised capital for exploration and engaged in protectionism to the benefit of their merchant classes (similar to today). Governments made possible the creation of the first corporations, so how can you possibly say that government is "auxiliary to business." It actually seems to be the other way around.
Its even harder to believe that people are trying in vain to ignore virtually every single ranking and index and report and survey that has ever sought to classify cities by importance.
I think you guys overstate the importance of DCs role as far as power and influence.
This is why DC doesnt top any rankings of importance or connectivity-because in reality, govt has an important role, but it doesnt have the only important role.
Government's role is more auxiliary to business, not more important than it.
first of all that 2004 GWAC survey did have D.C. topping the category political/social, so can't understand why you'd say it doesn't top any ranking of importance. D.C. is the capital of the most powerful nation on earth; gotta give it some importance, no?
second, the govt's role is auxilliary to business? Pretty familiar with the Constitution and I don't see anything like that in there.
Consider the govt's power to declare war; to set tax rates; to police the financial markets; to approve the food and drugs we take; to spend literally $1.5 trillion (that's with a "T") each year. What is the entire market cap of the world largest company? maybe 200-300 billion something like that? And when the finacial markets imploded in 2008 due to bad decisions on Wall Street who did they turn to to bail them out?
first of all that 2004 GWAC survey did have D.C. topping the category political/social, so can't understand why you'd say it doesn't top any ranking of importance. D.C. s the capitol of the most powerful nation on earth; gotta give it some importance, no?.
Yes DC is very important. Congrats.
But not more than Los Angeles.
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second, the govt's role is auxilliary to business? Pretty familiar with the Constitution and I don't see anything like that in there.
You seem to be under the false assumption that government runs business or that govt controls business.
Perhaps in China, but certainly not here.
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Consider the govt's power to declare war
Congress declares war, not the govt.
And LAs voice is much louder in congress than DCs.
Speaking of which, thank goodness for things like Buzz Lightyear and E.T. and Michael Jackson etc, to temper the world's view of the US. LA humanizes the US to a world that would otherwise hate our guts even more, LA is a much better ambassador of goodwill to the world than DC could ever dream of being.
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to set tax rates
yes, our money...not yalls.
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to police the financial markets
Do you really want to talk about how great that's worked out?
Really?
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to approve the food and drugs we take;
The Bush Administration's refusal to budge on stem cell research showed us that the govt can be a huge hinderance to progress with respect to medical advancements.
Advancements btw, that almost never eminate from DC.
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to spend literally $1.5 trillion (that's with a "T") each year.
Wells Fargo has $1.5 Trillion in Assets. BofA and Chase and Citigroup have more.
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What is the entire market cap of the world largest company? maybe 200-300 billion something like that?
The NY Area's F1000 Companies have a combined market value in the Trillions of Dollars.
Los Angeles has a higher population by leaps and bounds, being there are tons of rich tax payers from Beverly Hills to Orange County they contribute quite a bit to Washington.
Also, LA is a media giant, has a huge shipping port and in many countries, the words "Los Angeles" are more commonly known than "California" but come on.. this is our nation's capitol..
NYC is not even more important than DC.. DC not only controls this country, it controls a handfull of countries aswell..
When I think of DC, see pictures of DC (landmarks, capitol) I feel a sense of pride, Im a big homer to Cali but DC is just a stud economically, I have never been there but it's most def. on my list.
This is why DC doesn’t top any rankings of importance or connectivity-
Yes, but the rankings sidestep the issue of government institutions.
It isn't that GWAC scientifically weights the power of being home to Federal Reserve against being home to a fortune 400 company and then concludes that
X is more important than Y.
The rankings just sidestep those tricky issues and instead focus on things that are easier to quantify like advanced producer services. Hence, the "scientific" rankings don't really address the argument that the pro-DC side makes.
It maybe that if you did incorporate these factors, LA would still come out ahead. But, we can’t tell that from the current rankings.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
because in reality, govt has an important role, but it doesn’t have the only important role.
Government's role is more auxiliary to business, not more important than it
I agree with you that aggregate power outside of government exceeds the power within it. Government is only one force among many. But, the power of business, civil society, individual citizens is highly diffuse and not as concentrated in any one city to the extent that government power is.
1) California is home to 57 companies with 1.2 trillion in revenues.
2) New York is home to 56 companies with 1.3 trillion in revenues.
3) Texas is home to 57 companies with 1.2 trillion in revenues.
Meaning the 3 largest states are home to "fortune 500 companies" with $3.68 trillion.
Now this by itself doesn’t prove anything. There are a lot of qualifiers there.
But, I think it drives home the point that it is hard to ignore the role of government policy makers in people’s day-to-day lives. Both domestically and around the world.
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