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People generally in North Texas don't think of Fort Worth anywhere close to being a Dallas suburb, the area is so braned D-FW. I don't know where "many" lies but some big headed Dallasites might say this talking down on Fort Worth.
And Oh yeah but in that sense so is charlotte, with the area of Fort Worth Atlanta would be over a million.
Atlanta 540,921 132.4 sq mi
Sandy Springs 82,674 39.0 sq mi
Roswell 87,657 41.95 sq mi
Alpharetta 49,903 21.4 sq mi
Belvedere Park 18,945 5.0 sq mi
Candler-McAfee 28,294 7.0 sq mi
North Decatur 15,270 5.0 sq mi
Druid Hills 12,741 5.0 sq mi
Scottdale 9,803 3.5 sq mi
Panthersville 11,791 3.7 sq mi
North Druid Hills 18,852 5.0 sq mi
North Atlanta 38,579 7.8 sq mi
Dunwoody 39,583 12.1 sq mi
Doraville 9,862 3.6 sq mi
East Point 42,940 13.8 sq mi
College Park 20,382 9.7 sq mi Total 1,028,197 294.65 sq mi
Fort Worth 727,575 in 298.9 sq mi If Atlanta was Fort Worth size it would be 1,028,197 tell your friends about city limits before you mislead them.
Dallas is 1,299,543 in 385.0 sq mi If Atlanta was Dallas size more than likely Atlanta would be 1.1 mil something.[/quote]
Not entirely true.
Atlanta's core has a larger population than the other areas of Atlanta. So just saying if Atlanta used this amount of square miles it would have this population, etc. If you added the square mileage to Atlanta to equal Dallas' you would have a lot more wilderness and spread out subdivisions not dense development like you see in the central city. The population figure you posted for Atlanta if it had 385 square miles reflects if you were to add more areas to Atlanta like the central core. which wouldnt be the case.
Dallas' 385 square miles contains a lot of wetlands, industrial areas and flood plains The amount of developed area in the city of Dallas is smaller and pretty densely developed throughout. This development spreads quite a bit out into the suburbs as well.
Dekalb county which sits directly adjacent to Atlanta and has a small part of Atlanta in it is about the same size and population as Ft Worth. Added together Dekalb county and Atlanta would have about 1,270,000 and just under 400 square miles.
Dekalb county which sits directly adjacent to Atlanta and has a small part of Atlanta in it is about the same size and population as Ft Worth. Added together Dekalb county and Atlanta would have about 1,270,000 and just under 400 square miles.
Good point. Funny too, if you add Fulton and Dekalb counties together you get the same general size and population of Tarrant County where Ft Worth is. Thats why its always best to see county and city lines as worthless because they are really just jurisdictions drawn up. Comparing the density of a metros urbanized area is how you can really compare density.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.O.N.Y
I doubt it. But we can agree to disagree. The poster made it seem like "contrary to popular belief, most people in nyc live in suburbs" and than included new jersey and connecticut in the formula. Which is stupid. We can agree to disagree.
O. M. G.
Are you seriously arguing that the New York Metropolitan area consists solely of New York City and that the people who inhabit the area around New York City have zero connection to the City of New York?
This isn't a matter of opinion. The census bureau defines the New York Metropolitan area the following way:
Quote:
The New York metropolitan area, also known as Metropolitan New York, Greater New York, or the Tri-State Region/Area, is the most populous metropolitan area in the United States and is also one of the most populous in the world. The metropolitan area is defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget as the New York-Northern New Jersey-Long Island, New York-New Jersey-Pennsylvania Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), with an estimated population of 19,069,796 (roughly 1 in 16 Americans) as of 2009. The MSA is further subdivided into four metropolitan divisions. The 23-county metropolitan area includes ten counties in New York State (those coinciding with the five boroughs of New York City, the two counties of Long Island, and three counties in the lower Hudson Valley); twelve counties in Northern and Central New Jersey; and one county in northeastern Pennsylvania. The largest urbanized area in the United States is at the heart of the metropolitan area, the New York–Newark, NY–NJ–CT Urbanized Area (estimated to have a population of 18,319,939 as of 2008)
So review the metro consists of:
1. New York City: ~8 million People
2. Long Island, Northern New Jersey, the Hudson Valley, and eastern Connecticut aka the area surrounding New York City: ~10 million people
That means in the New York City Metropolitan area, 8 million people live in the city of New York, 10 million do not thus most people in the metropolitan area do not live in the City of New York. Not, New York City itself has suburbs in one of the 5 boroughs (debatable for Richmond county and the edges of Queens near Long Island).
Understand?
Who said New York City had "anything to do with" it's suburban areas in the meaning that it planned them or specifically supports them? No city is like that.
Are you seriously arguing that the New York Metropolitan area consists solely of New York City and that the people who inhabit the area around New York City have zero connection to the City of New York?
This isn't a matter of opinion. The census bureau defines the New York Metropolitan area the following way:
So review the metro consists of:
1. New York City: ~8 million People
2. Long Island, Northern New Jersey, the Hudson Valley, and eastern Connecticut: ~10 million people
That means in the New York City Metropolitan area, 8 million people live in the city of New York, 10 million do not thus most people in the metropolitan area do not live in the City of New York. Not, New York City itself has suburbs in one of the 5 boroughs (debatable for Richmond county and the edges of Queens near Long Island).
Understand?
Who said New York City had "anything to do with" it's suburban areas in the meaning that it planned them or specifically supports them? No city is like that.
No, he's just making a big deal because the poster said NYC specifically and not NYC metro.
Technically the poster was wrong, but everyone knew what was meant so it's like............
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA
No, he's just making a big deal because the poster said NYC specifically and not NYC metro.
Technically the poster was wrong, but everyone knew what was meant so it's like............
Semantics: The death knell of many C-D discussions.
Not entirely true.
Atlanta's core has a larger population than the other areas of Atlanta. So just saying if Atlanta used this amount of square miles it would have this population, etc. If you added the square mileage to Atlanta to equal Dallas' you would have a lot more wilderness and spread out subdivisions not dense development like you see in the central city. The population figure you posted for Atlanta if it had 385 square miles reflects if you were to add more areas to Atlanta like the central core. which wouldnt be the case.
Dallas' 385 square miles contains a lot of wetlands, industrial areas and flood plains The amount of developed area in the city of Dallas is smaller and pretty densely developed throughout. This development spreads quite a bit out into the suburbs as well.
Atlanta 540,921 132.4 sq mi
Sandy Springs 82,674 39.0 sq mi
Roswell 87,657 41.95 sq mi
Alpharetta 49,903 21.4 sq mi
Belvedere Park 18,945 5.0 sq mi
Candler-McAfee 28,294 7.0 sq mi
North Decatur 15,270 5.0 sq mi
Druid Hills 12,741 5.0 sq mi
Scottdale 9,803 3.5 sq mi
Panthersville 11,791 3.7 sq mi
North Druid Hills 18,852 5.0 sq mi
North Atlanta 38,579 7.8 sq mi
Dunwoody 39,583 12.1 sq mi
Doraville 9,862 3.6 sq mi
East Point 42,940 13.8 sq mi
College Park 20,382 9.7 sq mi
Vinings, 9,677 3.3 sq mi
Smyrna, 49,534 16 sq mi
Marietta 67,021 21.9 sq mi
Mableton 29,733 20.8 sq mi
Fair Oaks 8,443 2 sq mi
Kennesaw 31,613 8.5 sq mi 1,224,218 367.15 sq mi
Dallas is 1.3 mil or 1,299,543 in 385.0 sq mi
If Atlanta was 367.15 sq mi it would be 1.2 mil or 1,224,218.
No I add adjusted development CDPs and suburbs that were neighboring each other only. This is why you didn’t see places like stone mountain, stone mountain is develop it just there’s a large gap of incorporative area between, even though most of that area is develop as well. Yall really need to look on google map/earth. The only differences between Dallas and Atlanta, if ATL was the same land area, is that Dallas has a larger street grid, and the natural settings are different, the sizes of Land plots varies more in Atlanta than Dallas but overall their similar. The outer parts of Dallas are undoubtedly less denser than Dallas core, this is why currently Atlanta is denser at 132 sq mi than Dallas at 385.0 sq mi, no different than if the scenario was flipped. I never said Atlanta is larger or denser than Dallas but overall their close.
Many North Texans think Fort Worth is Dallas' suburb because they think it is very small. When I tell people Fort Worth is bigger than Atlanta they are very surprised.
No they don't... That's where Fort Worth is seen as its own city the most (around North Texas).
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmShahi
That's not a good thing though. Dallas should learn from Houston's mistake. Wider roads = uglier to look at. And that's true, the cities in the North normally expand on public transportation with demand, quick fix there, expanding roads more and not "forcibly" making people resort to public transportation is what cuts you deeper into an auto-centric image.
Yet, those cities in the Northeast (or at least those dubbed to have great public transit) still have some of the worst traffic congestion. Obviously adding transit isn't enough. You can't not expand the freeways and try to force people to ride public transit. You need to do both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal
People generally in North Texas don't think of Fort Worth anywhere close to being a Dallas suburb, the area is so braned D-FW. I don't know where "many" lies but some big headed Dallasites might say this talking down on Fort Worth.
And Oh yeah but in that sense so is charlotte, with the area of Fort Worth Atlanta would be over a million.
Atlanta 540,921 132.4 sq mi
Sandy Springs 82,674 39.0 sq mi
Roswell 87,657 41.95 sq mi
Alpharetta 49,903 21.4 sq mi
Belvedere Park 18,945 5.0 sq mi
Candler-McAfee 28,294 7.0 sq mi
North Decatur 15,270 5.0 sq mi
Druid Hills 12,741 5.0 sq mi
Scottdale 9,803 3.5 sq mi
Panthersville 11,791 3.7 sq mi
North Druid Hills 18,852 5.0 sq mi
North Atlanta 38,579 7.8 sq mi
Dunwoody 39,583 12.1 sq mi
Doraville 9,862 3.6 sq mi
East Point 42,940 13.8 sq mi
College Park 20,382 9.7 sq mi Total 1,028,197 294.65 sq mi
Fort Worth 727,575 in 298.9 sq mi
If Atlanta was Fort Worth size it would be 1,028,197
tell your friends about city limits before you mislead them.
Dallas is 1,299,543 in 385.0 sq mi
If Atlanta was Dallas size more than likely Atlanta would be 1.1 mil something.
Something interesting. If you took Atlanta's square miles and applied it to Houston, it'd still be larger than Atlanta. Not sure if it's the same for Dallas, but it might be.
Yet, those cities in the Northeast (or at least those dubbed to have great public transit) still have some of the worst traffic congestion. Obviously adding transit isn't enough. You can't not expand the freeways and try to force people to ride public transit. You need to do both.
Transit needs to be accesable for the residential areas and workplace, most development including the NE is so non cohesive and spread out transit is not feasable. Most places including the NE a majority of jobs are very difficult to access via any convenient transit. Fundamentally there either has to be a comprehensive plan (many times accross municipalities) and stricter zoning and currently their is almost zero desire by developers to provide for smarter more cohesive development. This also goes for Highway and road infrastructure.
This is all a balance between free enterprise, american living choice, and necessity
Even some of the better planned communities in the US are really driven by the developer dollar, increased demand = increased $. Older cities were developed more densly also by necessity and the $ in an era that pre-dated the automobile. Honestly many of the urban enclaves I so enjoy today are considerably different from what their intent but have been retro-fitted with younger urban dwellers whose money created the atmosphere there is today. Much of this infrastruture would likely not be duplicated today because of cost.
In many ways areas like Buckhead or Rosslyn, or Bethesda or Silver Spring are fairly admirable for their development style, or ability to morph under a different dynamic.
Last edited by kidphilly; 07-25-2010 at 02:06 PM..
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Not sure if it's the same for Dallas, but it might be.
