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Old 08-15-2010, 01:37 PM
205
 
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WestBank,

I`ve noticed you seem to always be championing Jackson and downing Bham on these boards. You don`t happen to post under the name "Tiger Attorney" on an LSU board (TD.com) do you? The idea that Jackson and Bham are alike is silly. They are very different economically and geographically. I`ve got nothing against Jackson either. I spent a solid month there on business and got to thoroughly explore the area. I really liked the reservior. I`d compare Jackson to a larger much nicer version of Montgomery. I just don`t see any real similarities to Bham. Bham is barely smaller than New Orleans but I`d never suggest the areas were similar. That`s the same way I see Jackson and Bham. As for Charlotte and Bham, I agree with you. The areas may have matched up well 15 years ago but not anymore. Charlotte started to blow past Bham at that point. One thing about Bham that may shock many people is that it`s per capita income is higher than Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, Louisville, and most other Southeastern cities. New Orleans and I think Charlotte were two of the few cities in the region with higher incomes. what you`d get if you mixed t
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 10,058,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
WestBank,

I`ve noticed you seem to always be championing Jackson and downing Bham on these boards. You don`t happen to post under the name "Tiger Attorney" on an LSU board (TD.com) do you? The idea that Jackson and Bham are alike is silly. They are very different economically and geographically. I`ve got nothing against Jackson either. I spent a solid month there on business and got to thoroughly explore the area. I really liked the reservior. I`d compare Jackson to a larger much nicer version of Montgomery. I just don`t see any real similarities to Bham. Bham is barely smaller than New Orleans but I`d never suggest the areas were similar. That`s the same way I see Jackson and Bham. As for Charlotte and Bham, I agree with you. The areas may have matched up well 15 years ago but not anymore. Charlotte started to blow past Bham at that point. One thing about Bham that may shock many people is that it`s per capita income is higher than Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, Louisville, and most other Southeastern cities. New Orleans and I think Charlotte were two of the few cities in the region with higher incomes. what you`d get if you mixed t
How am I championing Jackson over Birmingham? You've already subliminally downed Jackson right there because I've only stated that they seem similar. I haven't made a positive or negative comment toward either one. I never stated that they were alike geographically or economically.

Everyone keeps saying that you can't compare Birmingham to Little Rock or Jackson, etc.; but no one as said why. That's all I'm asking for is an explanation of what Birmingham has over these cities besides population. That's all I ask.

BTW, I can't stand LSU.

------
Another thing to look at here is that Birmingham has largely remained stagnant. Little Rock and Jackson have slowly been revitalizing and growing.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:45 PM
 
2,399 posts, read 4,024,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless in Bham View Post
Birmingham in the same league as Jackson, Columbia, and Little Rock??? LMAO!!. You must be kidding. I knew Birmingham was behind Charlotte in many aspects when I created this thread, but I dont think the gap is as wide as many on here think. A major difference is leadership and people's attitudes in both cities. Charlotte is more pro growth, while Birmingham is trying to remain stagnant for some insane reason.
In the long run, I believe that being slow growth will favor Birmingham.
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:09 PM
 
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My take on it is this. After having visited B'ham three times in the past year--and Jackson and Little Rock over the years-- Birmingham is clearly far ahead of them in look and feel, and in reality. B'ham, though, is different from Charlotte. I found B'ham to be a place that grew up long ago while Charlotte grew up (growing up still), much more recently. That does not diminish B'ham in any way--just makes the two very different cities in look and feel in my opinion. To me, B'ham reminds me of a smaller, older and a little slower version of Nashville. I think I could live in Birmingham, but I would never choose it over Charlotte.
Also, Charlotte's new art campus is spectacular for a city it's size. I don't think B'ham has anything like it. Charlotte's entertainment district is also something that downtown B'ham has nothing in comparison (although they may have something similar outside of DT?). But B'ham wins in the area of having a very nicely situated university--UAB.
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:16 PM
 
624 posts, read 1,351,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
LMAO, OK lets start with the population argument your begging for.
Little rock MSA 685,488 CSA 862,520
Jackson MSA 540,866 CSA 568,847
Birmingham MSA 1,131,070 CSA 1,212,848
Birmingham is nearly like both of them put together.

Bigger feeling and feeling faster are two different thing. I never said Birmingham was faster than Jackson or Little Rock. Clearly none of these 3 cities are growing much. But yet again Birmingham infrastructure does make it feel faster than those two cities. One error with the bigger version thing is your ignoring that Birmingham dominates Little Rock, and Jackson in nearly everything no matter if it’s the same stuff or not just saying. Also Birmingham is pretty sizable in education and medical. And bigger just to be bigger? No Bimingham was once a industral boomtown. in some sense it's like a southern rustbelt city.

But I find it funny that you even began to put down Memphis and Birmingham as if Austin and Charlotte are just so up their. I put it this way Memphis, Birmingham, Charlotte and Austin are way closer to each other than they are up to Dallas, Houston, Atlanta or Miami. This is why I said they’re all in same tier Charlotte and Austin are leaders of this tier, not a tier up. Little Rock and Jackson are like Augusta, Chattanooga tire.
I agree with this. I would say Charlotte and Austin are tier 4 or 5 cities depending on New York being in it's own category or not. These two cities could move up a tier within the next decade. To me, tier 3 should require a 2million to 4million MSA population. Both cities have lower tier 3 level skylines though. This is where the confusion is.
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:02 PM
 
4,698 posts, read 5,571,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestbankNOLA View Post
As of 2009 it's like this.

Little Rock: 685,488 MSA, 862,520 CSA
Jackson: 540,866 MSA, 568,847 CSA
---------------------------------------
Birmingham: 1,131,070 MSA, 1,212,848 CSA,
---------------------------------------
Charlotte: 1,745,524 MSA, 2,389,763 CSA
Austin: 1,705,075 MSA, 1,750,224 CSA

I like how y'all love to throw numbers around, but never realize how they are related to each other. If you averaged to two smaller MSAs (being lenient here), Birmingham and Jackson/Little Rock is 517,893 people apart from Birmingham. Charlotte/Austin is 594,229 people apart from Birmingham.


If anyone is going to use the argument that Jackson and Little Rock can't be on the same tier as Birmingham because of population, they have to do the same with Birmingham, Charlotte, and Austin (and that's keeping the numbers in the middle).
Table of United States Micropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Birmingham is nearly like both of them put together. the gap bewteen Atlanta, Miami, Dallas and Houston is even wider than Charlotte/Austin is with Memphis/Birmingham. But you want to make Birmingham on the same tire is Jackson, than Charlotte and Austin can go to in that sense.

Quote:
If you say you didn't, I guess you didn't say it. I just replied to an imaginary comment
Yes you did, please quote me saying something about how fast a places is before you replied to me.

Quote:
IMO, Birmingham's infrastructure makes it feel more spread out than it has to be because once you leave the gridded part of the city everything just winds out of control. The terrain doesn't allow for efficient infrastructure, at least not in a feasible way.
Bimingham infrastructure is built like other piedmont cities Atlanta, Charlotte and etc so I don't know what your trying to get at. In fact Birmingham has a larger grid than Charlotte. And I wasn't taking about grids but that can be added. If you look at the freeway infrastructure and density of developments Birmingham feel a lot bigger than Jackson point blank. There’s many cities between Dallas and Atlanta but the first one to feel like it has size is Birmingham and I‘m taking about coming from Dallas to Atlanta. Again Jackson feels like Augusta.

Quote:
How am I ignoring that Birmingham dominates? I clearly asked "is there really that much that can be done in Birmingham that I can't do in Jackson or Little Rock?" I'm just asking what does it dominate in? I already acknowledged that because it is bigger it will have a few extra amenities.
If you look at it statistically, via AmericanFactFinder, they actually are very close in numbers with a slight edge to Birmingham.
Because your twisting it around, and your question is loaded, "is there really that much that can be done in Birmingham that I can't do in Jackson or Little Rock?" This is loaded. So now I ask this, what doesn't Birmingham dominate over Jackson or Little Rock in? see how that works. I guess Birmingham has to have different amenities because dominating nearly in everything just doesn't count because it's more options of the same. ) I think you mixing the concept of uniqueness with tier, if Birmingham and Memphis are bigger version them that enough to make them above little Rock and Jackson. But for the info Birmingham is ahead of Charlotte in health and medical research and their about the same in highier education. Memphis carry it's weight pretty good in logistics it's a rail hub and it's home to the busiest airport in world in term of cargo.

Also I would love to know what amenities are pointed out by AmericanFactFinder? FactFinder tells demographic, income and etc not how many amenities blank place has.
Quote:
Now I'm putting places down because my opinion doesn't live up to yours?.
Yes technically you down it from my opinion. This is a straw man your opinion of Birmingham is low thus you are putting it down, your opinion of it is down, get it?. Your free to do this it’s your opinion, it's not the same thing as bashing.

Quote:
I'm just stating how it seems to me. Are Charlotte and Austin really closer to Birmingham and Memphis than they would be to Atlanta?
Yes, do you really want to compare? And I wasn't just talking about Atlanta, I said "Dallas, Houston, Atlanta or Miami"
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Metro Birmingham, AL
1,672 posts, read 2,720,166 times
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Its seems like Westbank is either trying to over rate Jackson and Little Rock, or has something against Birmingham. I know Birmingham is behind metros like Charlotte, Austin, Tampa, etc, but to place it with places like Jackson, Little Rock, and Montgomery is ridiculous. I visited Jackson last year, its slower, small town feel type place.
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 10,058,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Birmingham is nearly like both of them put together. the gap bewteen Atlanta, Miami, Dallas and Houston is even wider than Charlotte/Austin is with Memphis/Birmingham. But you want to make Birmingham on the same tire is Jackson, than Charlotte and Austin can go to in that sense.
Still, Jackson/Little Rock is around 500,000 people from being the size of Birmingham.
Birmingham is around 500,000 people away from being the size of Charlotte/Austin.

Quote:
Yes you did, please quote me saying something about how fast a places is before you replied to me.
"But don't lower Birmingham, it's slower yes but it don't feel like Little Rock and Columbia. You said you been to all these cities, well try stoping in Birmingham a few hours after stoping in Jackson." -chiatldal

Quote:
Bimingham infrastructure is built like other piedmont cities Atlanta, Charlotte and etc so I don't know what your trying to get at. In fact Birmingham has a larger grid than Charlotte. And I wasn't taking about grids but that can be added. If you look at the freeway infrastructure and density of developments Birmingham feel a lot bigger than Jackson point blank. There’s many cities between Dallas and Atlanta but the first one to feel like it has size is Birmingham and I‘m taking about coming from Dallas to Atlanta. Again Jackson feels like Augusta.
First, No Piedmont city is known for having good infrastructure. Most developing cities use Atlanta as a guide to what not to do in terms of infrastructure. Secondly, you said "Birmingham infrastructure does make it feel faster than those two cities". I replied "IMO, Birmingham's infrastructure makes it feel more spread out than it does faster...". Now you're saying the same thing that I said. Furthermore, Little Rock actually has more freeways than Birmingham does and they aren't as sprawled out.
Moving on, Birmingham is more like a piedmont city and has the characteristic larger lots and space between developments (with the exception of older parts). There is no way IMO that development in Birmingham feels denser than development in Jackson or Little Rock. Not to mention development in Birmingham has to cope with the terrain whereas the other two are flatter and take a more Texas approach to development. Also if freeways are a measure of what feels bigger Birmingham's widest is maybe 9 lanes across where I-20/59 splits. The I-55 in Jackson has 10 lanes across at it's widest part. The point is, freeways are irrelevant to a cities size.

You do realize that you're arguing how something feels to you vs how it feels to me, right?.....

Quote:
Because your twisting it around, and your question is loaded, "is there really that much that can be done in Birmingham that I can't do in Jackson or Little Rock?" This is loaded. So now I ask this, what doesn't Birmingham dominate over Jackson or Little Rock in? see how that works. I guess Birmingham has to have different amenities because dominating nearly in everything just doesn't count because it's more options of the same. ) I think you mixing the concept of uniqueness with tier, if Birmingham and Memphis are bigger version them that enough to make them above little Rock and Jackson. But for the info Birmingham is ahead of Charlotte in health and medical research and their about the same in highier education. Memphis carry it's weight pretty good in logistics it's a rail hub and it's home to the busiest airport in world in term of cargo.
First, how I do I twist my own original question around? I didn't even know that was possible. Second, it was a serious question. I've said repeatedly that since Birmingham is bigger, it will have a little more.

Seriously, as a regular citizen in Birmingham.. What can I do there that I can't do in Jackson or Little Rock besides go to a few extra stores and eat at a few extra restaurants. What is Birmingham really dominating in? That's all I want to know. Tell me, if there is something tell me and stop being divisive. If you all would just answer the question we'd be able to move on.
UAB is a pretty good advantage, I might add.

In the last 10 years Little Rock has grown at almost double the rate of Birmingham

Quote:
Also I would love to know what amenities are pointed out by AmericanFactFinder? FactFinder tells demographic, income and etc not how many amenities blank place has.
That was a new sentence, chiatldal. I said "If you look at it statistically, via AmericanFactFinder, they actually are very close in numbers with a slight edge to Birmingham." Meaning demographic statistics.

Quote:
Yes technically you down it from my opinion. This is a straw man your opinion of Birmingham is low thus you are putting it down, your opinion of it is down, get it?. Your free to do this it’s your opinion, it's not the same thing as bashing.
This is ridiculous. I could easily say you're doing the same thing about the other two cities in that case, but since you haven't said anything negative about them I would be stupid to claim that you were downing them.

Quote:
Yes, do you really want to compare? And I wasn't just talking about Atlanta, I said "Dallas, Houston, Atlanta or Miami"
That was another serious question..

Last edited by WestbankNOLA; 08-15-2010 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, United States
4,230 posts, read 10,058,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless in Bham View Post
Its seems like Westbank is either trying to over rate Jackson and Little Rock, or has something against Birmingham. I know Birmingham is behind metros like Charlotte, Austin, Tampa, etc, but to place it with places like Jackson, Little Rock, and Montgomery is ridiculous. I visited Jackson last year, its slower, small town feel type place.
It's an opinion. I'm so sorry that you have a problem with it because I don't feel the same way you do. Wait, actually I don't because I could sit here and get offended; but I have better sense than that.

You all are seriously trying to have an argument over how something feels to someone. Well I'll be damned.
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Old 08-15-2010, 04:34 PM
 
4,698 posts, read 5,571,674 times
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Originally Posted by gladt View Post
My take on it is this. After having visited B'ham three times in the past year--and Jackson and Little Rock over the years-- Birmingham is clearly far ahead of them in look and feel, and in reality. B'ham, though, is different from Charlotte. I found B'ham to be a place that grew up long ago while Charlotte grew up (growing up still), much more recently. That does not diminish B'ham in any way--just makes the two very different cities in look and feel in my opinion. To me, B'ham reminds me of a smaller, older and a little slower version of Nashville. I think I could live in Birmingham, but I would never choose it over Charlotte.
Also, Charlotte's new art campus is spectacular for a city it's size. I don't think B'ham has anything like it. Charlotte's entertainment district is also something that downtown B'ham has nothing in comparison (although they may have something similar outside of DT?). But B'ham wins in the area of having a very nicely situated university--UAB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgNCATL View Post
I agree with this. I would say Charlotte and Austin are tier 4 or 5 cities depending on New York being in it's own category or not. These two cities could move up a tier within the next decade. To me, tier 3 should require a 2million to 4million MSA population. Both cities have lower tier 3 level skylines though. This is where the confusion is.
yeah this what I trying to say. "This is why I said they’re all in same tier Charlotte and Austin are leaders of this tier, not a tier up" It’s no doubt that Charlotte and Austin are ahead of Memphis and Birmingham in most areas but their still the same tire. How many tires would you make for Metros under 2.5. Million? Because Birmingham is at least over a million and has a history of being a major city it deserve it’s place. Once upon a time Birmingham was a lot larger than Charlotte and it rival Atlanta. The city is viewed as the Pittsburgh of the south, it once was the largest heavy industry center in the south hands down. But after the 60s heavy industry declined this is why I said it’s like a southern rustbelt than a sunbelt. Before the 50s Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, New Orleans, Memphis, and Birmingham were all in the same tire. New Orleans was obviously the prime city for the south so it’s history is going to out any other southern city. But for the sake of the mid century class give Memphis and Birmingham their due, Little rock and Jackson were never this prominent. Little rock and Jackson are underrated but Birmingham deserves like a pro sport team, You know?


YouTube - Birmingham Freeway Tour: West & North
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