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I see what you're saying, but I'm not following you on your conclusion. As you state, it's probably a tie in the central city. I agree. But DC in general, like Saint Louis, is a predominantly safe city that happens to have some particularly bad areas, nearly all of which are east of the Anacostia.
For example, west of 16th Street--which represents approximately half of the city--DC has experienced all of two homicides this year, and both of those occured around the same intersection a block west of 16th. West of the Anacostia--an area which includes about 70% of the city's land area and over 450,000 people (a population larger than all of Saint Louis)--DC has recorded 29 homicides, which would place it among the nation's safest large cities. Neighborhoods that were formerly high crime areas--such as Logan Circle and U Street--have yet to record a homicide this year.
Yes, many neighborhoods east of the Anacostia are blighted with high crime rates, but like Saint Louis they represent a comparatively small portion of the city and are easily avoided.
As for the suburban areas, DC is home to some of the most affluent and safe suburban neighborhoods in the country. Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, Loudon and Montgomery County all have very low crime rates (both Montgomery and Fairfax counties, with populations at or over 1 million, would rank as among the safest large cities in the country). Even PG County, notorious in recent years for its high crime rate, hit a 10 year low last year, and is on pace to better those numbers this year.
In 2008 (the most recent figures I could find), St. Louis had a murder rate 50% higher than DC, sexual assault and aggravated assault rates that more than twice as high as DC's, a higher rate of robbery, and a property crime rate nearly twice as high as DC's. (United States cities by crime rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
I can't identify a single metric by which Saint Louis could be reasonably considered safer than DC--the only reason one might argue otherwise is because DC's decades-long reputation as a crime-ridden, violent city has proven difficult to shake off.
And for the record, in spite of the numbers I don't think of St. Louis as a particularly unsafe city, either. As you noted, the worst crime is relegated to a handful of particularly bad neighborhoods that are for the most part easily avoided. I'm just not seeing how it could be considered safer than DC, particularly considering the disparity in violent crime statistics.
Good points on DC. I guess when you think about it, the parts of DC where most people live might even be safer than similar areas of the city of StL, which as you mentioned is much smaller.
I guess I'm thinking too much about the metro vs metro. It's not that I think metro DC is unsafe, I just find metro StL to be typical suburban midwest where little happens.
So maybe I should call it a tie. I guess I sort of come from the same point of view on StL as you do on DC. I find StL to be a very safe city despite its terrible reputation of a crime ridden city.
Good points on DC. I guess when you think about it, the parts of DC where most people live might even be safer than similar areas of the city of StL, which as you mentioned is much smaller.
I guess I'm thinking too much about the metro vs metro. It's not that I think metro DC is unsafe, I just find metro StL to be typical suburban midwest where little happens.
So maybe I should call it a tie. I guess I sort of come from the same point of view on StL as you do on DC. I find StL to be a very safe city despite its terrible reputation of a crime ridden city.
I suppose the same can be said for DC.
I understand where you're coming from re: perception of safety. I've got relatives from St. Louis (they lived off of Bowles Ave.), and I've never felt unsafe visiting the city. In fact a like it quite a lot. And of course DC residents consistently deal with comments about the safety here, with perceptions lifted mainly from the 80s and early 90s, where much of the city resembled a war zone.
Re: metro St. Louis, it shouldn't be forgotten that East Saint Louis is included there, and nothing in metro DC matches E. St. Louis in terms of a violent crime rate.
many inner ring suburbs of st. louis struggle with urban crime, as is the case with most older urban cities. to say metro st. louis is 'typical midwest where nothing really happens' is a perplexing suggestion. st. louis has some 90+ suburbs in st. louis county alone (~1 million population), which cover a broad spectrum of demographics and socioeconomic dynamics. not only are those types of generalizations inaccurate, they are also just plain strange. what is 'typical midwest' and how does that differ from 'typical suburban'? dc and stl both have suburbs that are highly comparable by just about any measure; they also each have suburbs that are not. there are suburbs that have high crime and there are others that are quiet and bucolic as apple pie. living in st. louis proper having also lived in several other cities around the nation, i see the suburban areas of most cities to follow the same general pattern: inner ring are older and more dense and tend to have either more wealth and/or more crime; middle ring is more family friendly and less crime; outer ring is less dense and more conservative. this plays out in just about every metro i've experienced.
many inner ring suburbs of st. louis struggle with urban crime, as is the case with most older urban cities. to say metro st. louis is 'typical midwest where nothing really happens' is a perplexing suggestion. st. louis has some 90+ suburbs in st. louis county alone (~1 million population), which cover a broad spectrum of demographics and socioeconomic dynamics. not only are those types of generalizations inaccurate, they are also just plain strange. what is 'typical midwest' and how does that differ from 'typical suburban'? dc and stl both have suburbs that are highly comparable by just about any measure; they also each have suburbs that are not. there are suburbs that have high crime and there are others that are quiet and bucolic as apple pie. living in st. louis proper having also lived in several other cities around the nation, i see the suburban areas of most cities to follow the same general pattern: inner ring are older and more dense and tend to have either more wealth and/or more crime; middle ring is more family friendly and less crime; outer ring is less dense and more conservative. this plays out in just about every metro i've experienced.
Have to consider that the inner suburbs of St. Louis would be part of the city in almost any other metro due to how politics developed in the area. Although I can figure DC this is true for similar reasons in terms of an artifically constrained city limits having areas no different from the city outside of it.
I don't know if really any US city can compare with DC due to the unique situation. Though I do see some odd simiarities between DC and St. Louis. It likely is due to having similar patterns in being artifically constrained cities, building height maximums (though St. Louis looks to ditch at first oppurtunity), being along state borders which can affect development patterns, similar latitude (though DC winters are slightly milder due to coastal influences but recieve a lot more snow), similar patterns of crime being heavily concentrated in a few areas, and pattens typical of areas that are along the North/South boundary area. (although one pattern of industrial areas don't really exist in DC, but larger inner core area than places South but more sunbelt type development than places North)
downtown: DC
nightlife: DC
restaurants: DC
shopping: DC
architecture: DC but I like the St. Louis arch
culture: idk
public transportation: DC
museums: DC
parks: DC
schools: idk
diversity: DC
history: DC
concerts: DC
people in general: Every city has good people, and not so good people. I don't like to say a certain area has better people than another
DC and ST. Louis are on different levels. Nothing against St. Louis, but DC wins easily
DC, no doubt. I love visting STL, but I hate that "easy going" attitude they supposedly have out there. Almost got in a fight at a Cardinals game, but that's another story.
First post, don't know how I stumbled here, I was researching STL and saw this but this is an odd comparison on any metric save homerism, how is STL supposed to compete? They have nothing in common, DC is 2-3 times the metro population if you include Baltimore, it's a world capital, head of US government, military, courts and a slew of other things and the other is a city in the middle of the Midwest that doesn't have the same culture or background, workers don't even get to work the same way. It's not really fair to STL, how do you compete with International traffic, agencies, embassies, associations, CIA, NSA, FBI, US Supreme Court, World Bank, IMF, museums, etc...
I was in St Louis for meetings recently and I really liked it, it doesn't deserve the reputation it gets for crime, it's much much more laid back than DC. My favorite thing was visiting the city museum and doing an architectural tour.
It's been a while since this topic was made, anyone have anything new to add?
First post, don't know how I stumbled here, I was researching STL and saw this but this is an odd comparison on any metric save homerism, how is STL supposed to compete? They have nothing in common, DC is 2-3 times the metro population if you include Baltimore, it's a world capital, head of US government, military, courts and a slew of other things and the other is a city in the middle of the Midwest that doesn't have the same culture or background, workers don't even get to work the same way. It's not really fair to STL, how do you compete with International traffic, agencies, embassies, associations, CIA, NSA, FBI, US Supreme Court, World Bank, IMF, museums, etc...
I was in St Louis for meetings recently and I really liked it, it doesn't deserve the reputation it gets for crime, it's much much more laid back than DC. My favorite thing was visiting the city museum and doing an architectural tour.
It's been a while since this topic was made, anyone have anything new to add?
Which city would you rather live in? Which city has the better:
downtown: DC
nightlife: DC
restaurants: DC
shopping: DC
architecture: DC
sports: STL
culture: DC
public transportationC
museums: DC
parksC
schools: DC
diversity: DC
history: DC
concerts: DC
people in general: STL
D.C. hands down for me
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