Biggest 'feeling' DOWNTOWNS in America (economy, Florida, living, best)
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Nope. It did not. I was just referring offhand about skylines and the fact that Philly has a nice one, that could have been taller had a height restriction not been in place for many years.
I do think it's a little odd how people seem to equate tall buildings and skylines with importance, age & size. Many of the world's greatest, oldest, and most important cities do not have substantial skylines to speak of. Seems like a really American "me too!" sentiment that's' gotten ingrained in our culture (and yes I am American).
Philly doesn't really have any true demand for more office towers, as it can't really fill the ones it has without crippling tax incentives; and in recent decades, when a new tower has gotten built, it's basically just sucked tenants from another tower with less of a sweetheart tax deal, which then gets converted to a new use when they can't fill the empty office space (hotels, condos).
And yet people think if they don't keep building towers it somehow detracts from the city's status. But hey, I'll take Rome or Barcelona over Dubai any day!
I wouldn't say it detracts for its status. I was just saying that for the size of the city, the downtown area seems a bit underwhelming like you would expect more from such a large, historic and important city. How the city feels really has no impact on how the city really economically compares to other cities.
Plus, Philly has a downtown that flow right into other urban areas so it's hard to even nail down what is downtown with all the low/mid rise dense neighborhoods and business districts around downtown.
I wouldn't say it detracts for its status. I was just saying that for the size of the city, the downtown area seems a bit underwhelming like you would expect more from such a large, historic and important city. How the city feels really has no impact on how the city really economically compares to other cities.
Plus, Philly has a downtown that flow right into other urban areas so it's hard to even nail down what is downtown with all the low/mid rise dense neighborhoods and business districts around downtown.
I agree with that. But I guess I also don't think that adding towers necessarily adds anything to the city at street level (and I'd refer again to the Barcelona/Rome vs Dubai for that one).
But maybe back to your earlier point:
I think the main reasons Philly feels smaller than it is are:
1) that large portions of the city's population don't really interact with or have a lot to do with each other, and sort of stay in their own neighborhoods and travel in their own circles. And
2) that Philadelphia has a large number of reverse-commuters, due in part to byzantine tax laws which keep businesses just outside of the city, so a large number of people who live in the city actually work in places which are spread out all over the suburbs, which takes away from Center City being as much a of central regional business hub as it might otherwise be.
Except NYC, of course. After NYC every city in the WORLD is sort of underwhelming. Yes, even megacities like Tokyo, Seoul, Shanghai, Sao Paulo. There's just something so unique and special about the Big Apple.
That something is very simple... when you combine extremely high commercial density, residential density and entertainment density all on one tiny island in the wealthiest country in the world, you end up with a pretty intense outcome. That's why I always chuckle at the silly suggestions that I hear over here from time to time that Mexico City or Mumbai are more urban than NYC. Manhattan is the face of NYC, and no place in the world is more intensely urban than Manhattan. Not Tokyo, not Sao Paolo, not anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
Dunno just in the US alone I can think of a half dozen or more that by no means seem underwhelming relative to Philly. NYC and Chicago obviously feel larger, Philly feels small to me when compared to NYC, always has since I was a kid and Chicago feels much larger on the whole. Also SF, Boston, LA, DC and even SSeattle can compare at worst
Maybe in 1776 only NYC or Boston felt comparable; but last i checked it is 2012...
I can not believe you are actually trying to debate this guy. Are you that bored?
I agree with that. But I guess I also don't think that adding towers necessarily adds anything to the city at street level (and I'd refer again to the Barcelona/Rome vs Dubai for that one).
But maybe back to your earlier point:
I think the main reasons Philly feels smaller than it is are:
1) that large portions of the city's population don't really interact with or have a lot to do with each other, and sort of stay in their own neighborhoods and travel in their own circles. And
2) that Philadelphia has a large number of reverse-commuters, due in part to byzantine tax laws which keep businesses just outside of the city, so a large number of people who live in the city actually work in places which are spread out all over the suburbs, which takes away from Center City being as much a of central regional business hub as it might otherwise be.
Oh yea, office towers does not equal urban vibrancy. Philly is still one of the more vibrant downtowns regardless of how big the downtown feels or how big the skyline is. DC doesn't have any skyscrapers and it's one of the most vibrant and bustling cities in the country.
Hasn’t Wilmington taken quite a few companies from Philly?
Oh yea, office towers does not equal urban vibrancy. Philly is still one of the more vibrant downtowns regardless of how big the downtown feels or how big the skyline is. DC doesn't have any skyscrapers and it's one of the most vibrant and bustling cities in the country.
Hasn’t Wilmington taken quite a few companies from Philly?
more to Montgomery and Chester counties. Wilmington has always had sort of its own thing, especially with Credit Cards and Dupont
Oh yea, office towers does not equal urban vibrancy. Philly is still one of the more vibrant downtowns regardless of how big the downtown feels or how big the skyline is. DC doesn't have any skyscrapers and it's one of the most vibrant and bustling cities in the country.
Hasn’t Wilmington taken quite a few companies from Philly?
As someone who moved from Houston to Philly, I support your view that tall office towers do not equate to urban vibrancy at street level.
The only "company" I can think of that re-lcoated from Philly to Wilmington in the last several years was the Mid-Atlantic AAA HQ. Do you know of others? Most of the DT construction in Wilmington over the last 15 years has been to accommodate banks locating their credit card operations there.
As someone who moved from Houston to Philly, I support your view that tall office towers do not equate to urban vibrancy at street level.
The only "company" I can think of that re-lcoated from Philly to Wilmington in the last several years was the Mid-Atlantic AAA HQ. Do you know of others? Most of the DT construction in Wilmington over the last 15 years has been to accommodate banks locating their credit card operations there.
No, I just remember reading about companies fleeing Philly due to the high etax or something. Delaware I guess has a good business structure for the credit card companies but I figured they were getting some from philly too but I guess they have not been a huge factor.
Philly still has a sizable downtown employment so it’s not like the city doesn’t have a lot of companies.
Pretty sure Philadelphia had a moratorium on large buildings until early 80's. No building could be higher than the William Penn statue on City Hall, which is like 300-400 feet. Since that moratorium was lifted, Philadelphia has done pretty impressively to build its height in 30 years. IMHO, it's now one of the finest skylines in America. Imagine if there was no height restriction in place.
You are correct sir... except I want to correct you on the bolded part. City Hall's height is 548 feet.
All within walking distance of each other... it's like you walk into two different worlds.
Thanks, I knew it was something like that. If Philadelphia had the late 60s/70s to build higher, I bet they'd have at least one or two supertalls.
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