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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
No sympatico between Northeast and Midwest? Please stop..I'm living proof that such things exist..
There's also a little thing called "The Civil War", too...
That happened 150 years ago...get over it.
There are states that are considered "Northern" today such as Maryland that almost went to the Confederacy, and there are states considered southern today such as West Virginia that separated from Virginia so they could stay in the union.
Either way though, that is in the past and has little bearing on modern America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Being "northern" doesn't stop at the Penn-Ohio state line; try telling a Minnesotan or a Wisconsonite that they don't live in a northern state, and see what kind of a response you get..
I have never known a Minnesotan or a Wisconsonite to refer to themselves as a "Northerner". They are fully Midwesterners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Just another example of the Atlanta Booster Squad ( ABS) in action..
There are states that are considered "Northern" today such as Maryland that almost went to the Confederacy, and there are states considered southern today such as West Virginia that separated from Virginia so they could stay in the union.
Either way though, that is in the past and has little bearing on modern America.
I have never known a Minnesotan or a Wisconsonite to refer to themselves as a "Northerner". They are fully Midwesterners.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever
Actually, you're closer to the truth, I think.
Most southerners, in wanting a coke, generally want a cola. This could mean a Coke, Pepsi, or RC Cola. However, since Coke is more ingrained in the South than Pepsi, and since more people prefer it, the standard for a cola is a coke. Yet, there are a few people who don't like Pepsi and literally do mean Coke.
In Summary.
Southerners generally won't say, "I'd like a Coke" to refer to a Mr. Pibb or Sprite. For those, they'll say "Mr. Pibb" or "Sprite".
However, with the colas, "Coke" is often used in the general, since Coke is the dominant cola in the region.
Now, most southerners won't say, "I'd like a soda". I think that a lot of black southerners will say this, but white southerners simply tend to refer to each flavored soft drink by their name, unless it's a cola, and for that, it can be "coke". Other times, they may simply use the name, whether Coke or Pepsi.
That definitely has merit, and I have encountered the general usage of "coke" to mean any dark cola. But count me as one of those people who hates Pepsi and means bring me a coke. There have more than a few occasions where I've asked for a coke...only to receive a cup of sugar sludge (aka Pepsi) and be really upset.
Perhaps it depends on where you are referring to. I've lived in TN, AL, FL, and TX. Generally when someone offers you a coke the typical response is to ask "what do you have?" because in the places I lived coke is used as a generic reference to any type of soda pop. Sometimes coke is referred to as a Co-Cola if someone wants that particular brand of soft drink."
I think you have pretty well nailed it! We all have our different experiences, but survey results indeed do indicate that in the Southern states, the majority generic term for a soft-drink is "coke" (and yes, that has definitely been my own observation!) As has been noted earlier, black Southerners tend to use "soda" quite frequently -- if not most of the time -- but over-all, "coke" is the preferred term for a carbonated beverage. So yes, in this regard it does substitute for what others might mean when they say "soda" or "pop".
This doesn't mean that Southerners go into a place and, when asked what they want to drink, will not order their preference as the brand by name. Of course not. Like anybody else, we will give our preference by product.
What it means is that Southerners are more likely to, when questioning a group or individual, ask along the lines of "Do you want a coke?" Or "Do y'all want to go get a coke?" As opposed to using "soda" or "pop" as the relavent term.
And of course, if someone asks "What kind of cokes do you have?" then most Southerners will know what is meant by the phrasing.
So a lot of all this just depends upon the situation and circumstances, and how the question or term comes up.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
I lived in WI , and I beg to differ..
I think that is your own projection working...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Northeast + Midwest = North
No.
Midwest = The Midwest
North = the Northeast
Even during the Civil War, the states in the Union and Confederacy that were not in the Northeast or South were referred to as Western states and the battles that took place there the Western Theater.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Basic geography, once again..
Hmm, really? Then how come California, Arizona, and New Mexico are not considered part of the South. If your basic geography statement is true, then Los Angeles is the biggest city in the American South...
I think you have pretty well nailed it! We all have our different experiences, but survey results indeed do indicate that in the Southern states, the majority generic term for a soft-drink is "coke" (and yes, that has definitely been my own observation!) As has been noted earlier, black Southerners tend to use "soda" quite frequently -- if not most of the time -- but over-all, "coke" is the preferred term for a carbonated beverage. So yes, in this regard it does substitute for what others might mean when they say "soda" or "pop".
This doesn't mean that Southerners go into a place and, when asked what they want to drink, will not order their preference as the brand by name. Of course not. Like anybody else, we will give our preference by product.
What it means is that Southerners are more likely to, when questioning a group or individual, ask along the lines of "Do you want a coke?" Or "Do y'all want to go get a coke?" As opposed to using "soda" or "pop" as the relavent term.
And of course, if someone asks "What kind of cokes do you have?" then most Southerners will know what is meant by the phrasing.
So a lot of all this just depends upon the situation and circumstances, and how the question or term comes up.
I think that map is flawed because I've worked in a few resaturates and I've never heard "coke". It was always the name of the soda.
Even during the Civil War, the states in the Union and Confederacy that were not in the Northeast or South were referred to as Western states and the battles that took place there the Western Theater.
Hmm, really? Then how come California, Arizona, and New Mexico are not considered part of the South. If your basic geography statement is true, then Los Angeles is the biggest city in the American South...
So many mistakes here..just incredible..
By your reasoning here, Texas should be excluded from the South ,because it was part of the "Western Theater'..
Arizona and New Mexico weren't even states during the war, and in any case are considered to be "too far West' to be involved in any north/south comparison, just as Montana is not included in the discussion either..
Minnesotans were in Gettysburg, with Pensylvanians and New Yorkers, once again proving an alliance..
California, in this argument is largely "out-of-sight, and out-of-mind"; it was considered to be a northern state during the Civil War, but really is too far west to be a part of this discussion..
The references to "northeast and the midwest" are legion in all aspects of politics, journalism, "Rust Belt", even professional sports, which until the 1960s, were almost exclusively located in northern cities such as Boston, NYC, Philly, Pitt, Cleve, Detroit, Chicago, MIlwaukee, etc..
I wouldn't care so much if you didn't feel the need to say the the South is "by far the largest", only when you excluded the Midwest from the totals, which just represented an attempt, once again, to boost the South at others' expense..
Once again, for the geographically-and-culturally impaired:
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
So many mistakes here..just incredible..
By your reasoning here, Texas should be excluded from the South ,because it was part of the "Western Theater'..
There are arguments to that effect (along with a lot of other stuff that has happened over the last 150) that place Texas not as a solid Southern state but sort of a transition state between the Old South and the Southwest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Arizona and New Mexico weren't even states during the war, and in any case are considered to be "too far West' to be involved in any north/south comparison, just as Montana is not included in the discussion either..
But I thought your argument was "simply geography".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
Minnesotans were in Gettysburg, with Pensylvanians and New Yorkers, once again proving an alliance...
Again, the Civil War is over and has little bearing today on how regions are. Also, I assume you are aware that there were plenty of Southerners who stayed loyal to the Union (and enlisted in the Union Army) as well as how there were many Northerners who either supported the confederate cause and at various points during the war considered going over to the Confederacy or whom joined the Rebel Army, right?
That war was not as simple as the "South" vs the "North". Those types of wars never are. Also, I fail to see how it has much merit today. I am a Southerner from Georgia born and raised....who has New Yorker parents and is half African-American and Japanese-American. Do you think that if the Civil War happened today I wouldn't join the Union Army? It's 2010 bub. The past is the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
California, in this argument is largely "out-of-sight, and out-of-mind"; it was considered to be a northern state during the Civil War, but really is too far west to be a part of this discussion..
No. California was a Western and Union state during the war.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
The references to "northeast and the midwest" are legion in all aspects of politics, journalism, "Rust Belt", even professional sports, which until the 1960s, were almost exclusively located in northern cities such as Boston, NYC, Philly, Pitt, Cleve, Detroit, Chicago, MIlwaukee, etc..
I'm not really sure why you are so insistant on combining the Northeast with the Midwest.
Do you believe Northeastern culture to be superior and that by co-opting that culture you too become "elite"?
Do you not believe that Midwestern states and cities have their very own culture and history separate from that of the Northeastern states? Shouldn't Midwestern states be allowed to have that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt
I wouldn't care so much if you didn't feel the need to say the the South is "by far the largest", only when you excluded the Midwest from the totals, which just represented an attempt, once again, to boost the South at others' expense..
That brings up a good point? Why should you "care" if the South is the largest populated region in the country? Do you lose something? Do you think the South is below you and not just in a literal way? Especially since it is a fact that can not be "cared for". For instance, someone may not "care" if the sky is blue, that won't make it not blue.
It is what it is. The South covers the largest chunk of the this country and has the most states in an American region, thus has the most people. Knowing this does not diminish any other region of the United States in anyway and for you to think that it does is really, really, childish and ignorant (sorry mods, just calling a spade a spade).
Last edited by waronxmas; 11-29-2010 at 11:49 AM..
I think that map is flawed because I've worked in a few resaturates and I've never heard "coke". It was always the name of the soda.
I have worked in a few myself, and with all due respect I think you are missing the import of the map, Jluke.
It is not suggesting people ---- Southern or otherwise -- do not ask for a particular brand of soft-drink by name. The survey is based on what term people over the country use as the overall generic label for a soft-drink. In other words, where people from the northeast will more likely ask -- when keeping it simple and broad -- "Do you guys want to go get a pop?" Southerners are more prone to ask "Do y'all want to go get a coke?" "Coke" in this context meaning any type of soft-drink.
I don't see how it can be flawed (although any survey is going to have some issues) when there are obvious regional patterns working, the question asked was very simple, and other like surveys yield similar results.
I think that map is flawed because I've worked in a few resaturates and I've never heard "coke". It was always the name of the soda.
Well for the first time I will have to agree with Stars and Stripes. You have too look at it from a different perspective. Most blacks in the South will either say soda or the brand. We will never go into a restaurant or store and ask "what kind of coke do you have." I never said it. My family never said it. My friends never said it. I never even knew that was even popular until I came on the internet. But most Whites in the South may in fact ask that question in a restaurant or store.
Now I live in the Chicago area. They say pop up here and they are trying to get me to say it. It's not happening.
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