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Well would you honestly? Not sure since you won't answer the majority of my questions... It's fine that you have different opinions, it's not fine that you state things as facts that you really have no clue about but believe them anyways because no matter what anyone else says you have a conclusion that you believe in so everything else is just white noise to you... You not agreeing doesn't matter, you not even being interested in another perspective is the real sad part, way to be the image of an era.
sure... I would like to understand your perspective but it's hard. I've lived in vegas and was rarely bored. On my days off there was always something to do and that's why i used the vacation analogy. people tend to vacation in places where there are things to do. I've also visited StL over a dozen times for work and short road trips vacation and maybe it's me or the weekends that I've been there but it is a midwestern town and I found myself asking what is there to do that I can't do back home? Sure there are nooks that only the locals would know about but vegas also has those.
Call me an image of an era and I say the same to you. There is something that is generally agreed on and that is that the midwest is "flyover country". I don't agree with it but maybe i'm biased because I live here. Maybe it's a just a difference of opinion (and that's fine) but I couldn't say that the recreational activities in Stl are more plentiful or better. That's why I asked what does STL have that would make Vegas Jealous (twice with no answer).
When I stated that Vegas has more restaurants, I meant that they have more quality restaurants not the count of McDonalds or major chains (of course you would have more, you're a bigger city)
https://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...owth-index.pdf
Stl. Has 5,873 restaurants overall and Las Vegas has 4,899 so you got me there but las vegas still grosses more in restaurant sales due to tourism but las vegas is the 2nd fastest growing food market in America.
Now that I've answered the question that you've asked multiple times, what does Stl have that would make Vegas Jealous?
sure... I would like to understand your perspective but it's hard. I've lived in vegas and was rarely bored. On my days off there was always something to do and that's why i used the vacation analogy. people tend to vacation in places where there are things to do. I've also visited StL over a dozen times for work and short road trips vacation and maybe it's me or the weekends that I've been there but it is a midwestern town and I found myself asking what is there to do that I can't do back home? Sure there are nooks that only the locals would know about but vegas also has those.
Call me an image of an era and I say the same to you. There is something that is generally agreed on and that is that the midwest is "flyover country". I don't agree with it but maybe i'm biased because I live here. Maybe it's a just a difference of opinion (and that's fine) but I couldn't say that the recreational activities in Stl are more plentiful or better. That's why I asked what does STL have that would make Vegas Jealous (twice with no answer).
When I stated that Vegas has more restaurants, I meant that they have more quality restaurants not the count of McDonalds or major chains (of course you would have more, you're a bigger city)
https://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...owth-index.pdf
Stl. Has 5,873 restaurants overall and Las Vegas has 4,899 so you got me there but las vegas still grosses more in restaurant sales due to tourism but las vegas is the 2nd fastest growing food market in America.
Now that I've answered the question that you've asked multiple times, what does Stl have that would make Vegas Jealous?
St. Louis has a larger more active live theater community. It ranks 6th in between Minneapolis and Atlanta.
St. Louis ranks 2nd with the most bars per capita. Vegas was 9th.
There is more but I don't have time to research. Like I've stated before. I enjoy both but prefer St. Louis because of the commercial base, access to walkable urban neighborhoods. and I just have a preference for older established urban cities. I've never had a problem finding things to do in St. Louis or Vegas. As far as St. Louis being flyover country, its pretty much correct. For some reason things don't just hit you here like they do in other cities. But it is a great place if you look for it.
I called recreation a tie and this bothers you, tremendously. I can give you a list, but I'm sure that it will still bother you tremendously that I have a positive opinion about St. Louis. You seem a bit obsessed with knocking it down, your issue.
I like theater...broadway level and local. I love the symphony, ours is amazing. Ballet. Opera. I love museums, we have great ones. I love gardens...our botanical garden is one of the best in the world. I love walking, running, biking, playing with my kids in the park. We are loaded with great parks, including one of the best in the country. I enjoy hiking through green trees up a river bluff and looking down over the river valley...15 minutes from home (Castlewood State Park), not to mention numerous other gorgeous natural parks at the entrance to the Ozarks. I love old beautiful architecture...we're loaded with neighborhoods to explore. I also enjoy exploring different interesting local neighborhoods, which we are loaded with.
What I don't love. Big concerts. Celebrities. Casinos. Drinking. Being seen in 5 star restaurants (give me a unique and interesting local place any day). Dodging tourists.
My OPINION, I find the recreational amenities actually LIVING here to be pretty equal to Vegas, for what I enjoy. You figure out for yourself why that gives you such fits. Your opinion that Vegas would have much more to do for you is just as valid for you, no real reason to get so worked up.
My OPINION, I find the recreational amenities actually LIVING here to be pretty equal to Vegas, for what I enjoy. You figure out for yourself why that gives you such fits. Your opinion that Vegas would have much more to do for you is just as valid for you, no real reason to get so worked up.
I'm not worked up... at all. Earlier i said that it's fine to have your own opinion, I'm not having fits. My point was that everything you just named off, you can do in most major cities in america (maybe not opera, i honestly don't know) including Las Vegas. So if you combine that list with my "silly list" from earlier that to me says that las vegas has more to do. That's just my opinion. The reason I was speaking in fact earlier was because Vegas has many many events and venues that are uniquely las Vegas. If those options are not your cup of tea, I get it.
sure... I would like to understand your perspective but it's hard. I've lived in vegas and was rarely bored. On my days off there was always something to do and that's why i used the vacation analogy. people tend to vacation in places where there are things to do. I've also visited StL over a dozen times for work and short road trips vacation and maybe it's me or the weekends that I've been there but it is a midwestern town and I found myself asking what is there to do that I can't do back home? Sure there are nooks that only the locals would know about but vegas also has those.
Call me an image of an era and I say the same to you. There is something that is generally agreed on and that is that the midwest is "flyover country". I don't agree with it but maybe i'm biased because I live here. Maybe it's a just a difference of opinion (and that's fine) but I couldn't say that the recreational activities in Stl are more plentiful or better. That's why I asked what does STL have that would make Vegas Jealous (twice with no answer).
When I stated that Vegas has more restaurants, I meant that they have more quality restaurants not the count of McDonalds or major chains (of course you would have more, you're a bigger city)
https://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/...owth-index.pdf
Stl. Has 5,873 restaurants overall and Las Vegas has 4,899 so you got me there but las vegas still grosses more in restaurant sales due to tourism but las vegas is the 2nd fastest growing food market in America.
Now that I've answered the question that you've asked multiple times, what does Stl have that would make Vegas Jealous?
I still have a lot of problems with this post, but thanks for at least taking the time to write a somewhat serious response, I'll try and do the same.
So home is LV for you eh (although you said woot for KC, and your post history has...well, a lot of KC, so are you from there? How do you honestly feel about KC vs. LV? Yes, as you might guess, I think KC is more interesting than LV as well... I'm glad you aren't bored in LV, were you bored in KC?), then can you please respond to/answer this earlier question/response of mine, "so this is what you think LV residents do in their leisure time? Go see Brittney Spears (btw, residencies? do you think LA has a lot to do because celebrities live there?), travel to the future (apparently, since you're unaware it doesn't exist yet...) to go to NFL games, eat at "5 star restaurants" (you want to know how I know you also know absolutely nothing about food and how it's rated? The list of things you don't know about but keep trying to post about with authority is getting really long...), go to "Nationally recognized Nightclubs " (I'm curious, do you know any? are you into the nightclub scene? I know the answer for your "5 star restaurant" claims, but jw...), go to the Hoover dam???"
Seriously then, how many times have you seen Brittney? Or Drake? Or gone to the Hoover dam? Or better yet NFL games??? You don't have any issue just making stuff up like this??? How about your nights at "Nationally recognized nightclubs" (again, which ones? are you into the nightclub scene?)? I'll answer your ongoing "5 star restaurant" claims with an unfortunate question for you... What are you talking about??? 5 stars? The most traditionally respected rating system, Michelin (currently doesn't do either city), only goes up to three stars! Zagat is on a 20 point scale! What is your primary guide then, Forbes??? Or is it something like Yelp? If so I got bad news for you, because on their recent ranking STL came in at #2 and LV was number 6... Here's the list:
1. San Francisco, CA
2. St. Louis, MO
3. Honolulu, HI
4. Plano, TX
5. San Diego, CA
6. Las Vegas, NV
7. Richmond, VA
8. Pittsburgh, PA
9. Baltimore, MD
10. Austin, TX
See, I can do that too. There's many more, by Zagat for example where STL was 17th but LV wasn't even in the list of 30 (https://www.zagat.com/b/30-most-exci...n-america-2017) how about Food&Wine, NYT, etc. St. Louis has gotten quite a bit of buzz in the food world in the past few years, whether these lists or James Beard nominations/wins. The thing is though, every city has these lists. How much experience do YOU actually have here?
You spouted out a bunch of non-supported claims, some of which you've finally backed off on or just ignored entirely now (and remember, this all started with you attacking another poster's opinion), but you keep dodging the specifics of all the subjects. For example now, do you know the LV food scene? What about the food scene in STL? I've been to LV many times for conferences, only once passing through on "vacation", so there was quite a bit of expense account dining, and frankly, that's what a lot of Vegas is, expense account / overpriced tourist trap dining or just generic fake Disney light hotel "experiences" that ring hollow and sad. Famous chefs doing knock off versions where they sell their name but they're not at all the actual chef of the restaurant, overpriced, cash-in dining masquerading as a premium gastronomic experience. Color me not impressed as a whole (there def are exceptions), but are these your normal dinner nights out? Do you always savor US haute cuisine like the French Laundry or Alinea? I assume not from your posts, and you know what? Even bigger chefs have been moving away from "fine dining" and into fast casual, something St. Louis does quite well. So as another poster basically said, if you want the image of fine dining, then Vegas is better, for a more organic/real ground up food scene, St. Louis is better. Note, this will obviously vary with certain specific ethnic cuisine.
Next, your continued use of "vacation destination" has been counter argued ad nauseam... I'm not saying it wasn't a good idea/starting point, but please address the many ways I've debunked the flaw in this logic. Also, weird you just said this together, "people tend to vacation in places where there are things to do. I've also visited StL over a dozen times for work and short road trips vacation"
"Flyover country"? Yeah, St. Louis is... and... so is LV! Do you know what that means? It isn't just for the Midwest as you incorrectly state...
Things that would make LV jealous? LV isn't alive, it doesn't get jealous, just like STL didn't get jealous at your let's say not super accurate list from before. Alright though, how about we start with why this thread mostly fails from the get go, these two "cities" are almost nothing alike! One is older than the US with centuries of history, and was the 4th largest city in the US and a top ten city for most of US history and as such has the cultural institutions (free even)(Vegas isn't even close in this category), numerous periods of architecture giving it a gorgeous built environment (again, a blow-out for STL, LV will never have this, and frankly, most modern US buildings are cheap and generic...), one that is also walkable and more easily adapted to transit (oh, add that, 46 miles of a light rail system (with funding approved for a 3rd line) a trolly, etc.), countless unique neighborhoods that have a village feel (not a "city" of cul-de-sacs), etc. Hoover dam? How about a national park/monument right downtown (add a real downtown to the list, most of your stuff is a street that isn't even in LV...)Should I get more superficial like you were? Ok, how about the 2nd most successful MLB franchise? A more storied NHL franchise, one of the routinely highest rated zoos (also free) in the US undergoing a massive expansion, an amazing park system with one of the highest rated city parks, the highly rated botanical gardens (oldest west of the Mississippi), one of the highest rated research universities and med schools in the country, a much larger economy (and not just because of the also much larger population), a real amusement park and not just random roller coasters charging $25 a ride, the unique madhouse that is the city museum, a much better craft brewery scene, a location with easy access to a bunch of other cities, etc. I can and will keep going if you want, but it's getting late on this side of the pond so it'll have to wait. Prefer what you want, most of the criteria was subjective, just stop attacking the opinions of others while simultaneously making things up and claiming that you're stating universal facts or whatever. These two places are totally different, and that means they will appeal to different tastes.
Last edited by Caesarstl; 03-06-2019 at 06:10 PM..
I'm not worked up... at all. Earlier i said that it's fine to have your own opinion, I'm not having fits. My point was that everything you just named off, you can do in most major cities in america (maybe not opera, i honestly don't know) including Las Vegas. So if you combine that list with my "silly list" from earlier that to me says that las vegas has more to do. That's just my opinion. The reason I was speaking in fact earlier was because Vegas has many many events and venues that are uniquely las Vegas and if you count the entertainment venues and events, Vegas factually has more. If those options are not your cup of tea, I get it.
Actually, you said, in post 19, that his opinion, "has to be a joke." Just so you know, pretty much everything you listed for LV is available in most major US cities, those things weren't "uniquely Vegas."
Also, in post 29, you still said this... "Yes, I do think that vegas has more to do than Miami, Boston and SF. Chicago is debatable."
Actually, you said, in post 19, that his opinion, "has to be a joke." Just so you know, pretty much everything you listed for LV is available in most major US cities, those things weren't "uniquely Vegas."
Also, in post 29, you still said this... "Yes, I do think that vegas has more to do than Miami, Boston and SF. Chicago is debatable."
I know what i said. I also said that it's fine to have your own opinion. and I also said that you win. have a good day kind sir... Geez, I thought that I was supposed to be the one who is worked up.
Public transportation: St. Louis
- Food: Las Vegas
- Education: St. Louis
- Recreational activities: Las Vegas
- Natural scenery: St. Louis
- Population (city, MSA, CSA, etc.): Las Vegas, St. Louis, St. Louis
- Skyline: Las Vegas
- Downtown vibrancy: Las Vegas
- Location: St. Louis
- Weather: Las Vegas
- Economy: Las Vegas
- Diversity (people): Las Vegas
- Nightlife: Las Vegas
Las Vegas is better to me. This is an interesting comparison.
- Public transportation: STL
- Food: STL for every-day eats and casual dining out; LV for fine dining
- Education: STL
- Recreational activities: Tie probably; depends on preference
- Natural scenery: Depends on preference of greenery vs. mountains, but slight edge to LV for the mountains
- Population (city, MSA, CSA, etc.): LV is growing quicker; STL is still larger so tie?
- Skyline: STL is actual buildings while LV is just hotels
- Downtown vibrancy: STL has a real downtown, not just a collection of hotels and drunk tourists
- Location: Tie? I prefer the Midwest/Northeast over the Desert SW, but NV is a better state that MO now that it votes more reliably blue
- Weather: STL since I prefer 4 seasons
- Economy: LV
- Diversity (people): LV
- Nightlife: STL for casual bar hopping and nights out with friends; LV for DJs and festivals and high-end nightclubs
I'd prefer living in STL. It's a real city with real neighborhoods with real walkability. LV is a collection of cul de sacs surrounding an expensive hotel/dining/retail street.
I agree with what you said, totally. I enjoy Las Vegas, but call me when their monorail finally connects ALL casinos to its convention center. For those who've never ridden it, it's basically a joke, and it only runs between MGM Grand north to the Las Vegas convention center. There's a reason most of the public transit ridership either uses The Deuce or the SDX express buses, and they NEVER once think about using the monorail. I guess this one would be good to use if say you were going to Westgate(former Hilton), since that's just east enough where many never step foot into there, due to it not being right on Las Vegas Blvd?
There are also 2 other smaller monorails that run between MGM casino properties, as well. One goes between Treasure Island and The Mirage(that is it, ONLY connects these 2 casinos together), and the other connects New York New York, Excalibur, Luxor, and Mandalay Bay together(this has more stops). There was talk about extending one of these 2 smaller monorails(I think the Mandalay Bay-NYNY one) to also stop at the new arena for the Las Vegas Golden Knights(NHL), but not sure if that's been completed yet.
Say all you want about Saint Louis losing out on ___ companies moving headquarters away, or it losing ____ sports teams from years ago, but for sure Saint Louis beats Las Vegas in terms of liveability. And I think people underrate how good the public transit is in Saint Louis, which I've used before. Both the bus routes, and the light rail there(Metrolink, FAR more useful then any of the monorails in Las Vegas!). Don't get me wrong, the Deuce limited stop bus route or the SDX(which uses a slightly different route and does stop close to Westgate) are both very useful limited stop bus routes that connect the Strip and downtown Las Vegas. But I'd say overall, public transit is a little better in Saint Louis.
Looking back when this thread was first created, I'd say the OP should've instead compared Las Vegas and Phoenix. Why Saint Louis to Las Vegas, instead of substituting Saint Louis for Phoenix? But that's just me!
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