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agreed. The only way oakland beats cleveland is if you latch on the rest of the bay area. It cant stand on its own. - NorCal Dude
That statement was non sensical.
Oakland is one of the most, if not the most, diverse cities in America. It is a city on it's own, so it can stand on it's own.
Oakland is the principal city of the East Bay Area, and plays an important part in keeping the San Francisco Bay Area afloat.
Lake Merritt, the Largest Urban Salt-Water lake in country is unmatched.
While the Oakland Hills provide unparalleled panorama views of the San Francisco Bay Area.
Last edited by Stephen1110; 12-10-2010 at 12:21 PM..
Oakland is one of the most, if not the most, diverse cities in America. It is a city on it's own, so it can stand on it's own.
Diversity is frankly overrated in terms of quality of cities. Though I enjoy it, it is one of the most overrated aspects and diversity comes and goes. I wouldn't fault the major cities of the rest of the world for not being diverse, such as lets see... Tokyo comes to mind.
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Oakland is the principal city of the East Bay Area, and plays an important part in keeping the San Francisco Bay Area afloat.
Cleveland is the principal city of the entire NE Ohio Region and arguably of the entire state. I do not think SF Bay Area needs to be kept afloat ...it is doing quite well with or without Oakland's contributions.
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Lake Merritt, the Largest Urban Salt-Water lake in country is unmatched.
Salt lake city doesn't count? And unmatched by what... you realize Cleveland is on one of the Great Lakes? You think Lake Merritt is more substantial than Lake Erie???
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While the Oakland Hills provide unparalleled panorama views of the San Francisco Bay Area.
I'd say the residents of Marin County would argue with you on that.
Oakland is cool and all I just don't see how anybody would put it as a standalone over Cleveland ...But people put San Jose over Philadelphia and Atlanta too so...
I guess it isn't totally a surprise.
" I do not think SF Bay Area needs to be kept afloat ...it is doing quite well with or without Oakland's contributions" - grapico
Without Oakland's contributions? You cant be serious. So, i can infer that what you're trying to convey here, is that if Oakland was to become a void, the San Francisco Bay Area wouldnt hurt. Even though:
* Oakland is the principle city of the East Bay Area ( San Francisco is one to the Peninsula, San Jose is one to the South Bay) Taking Oakland out will have the same effect as taking Cleveland out of it's metro. 3 examples why it would affect the San Francisco Bay Area, and MORE.
* The Port of Oakland handles 99% of ALL containerized goods moving through Northern California. It is responsible for 200,000 jobs related to maritime activities, the largest market in it's metro.
*Major corporations such as Kaiser Permanente, (the Largest Healthcare Provider in Northern California, the Largest Managed Care Provider in the United States, the 5th Largest private company in the United States), serving 8.7 million members and 160,000 employees.
* University of California, Berkeley, one of the top universities in the world, is more than halfway within Oakland city limits.
"Salt lake city doesn't count? And unmatched by what... you realize Cleveland is on one of the Great Lakes?" - grapico
Why would Salt Lake City count? The lake is not urban and it is not within Salt Lake City's city limits. The Great Lakes are fresh water lakes and are not within Cleveland's city limits.
I wasn't implying that at all. It is without a doubt the least important and successful branch of the 3, Silicon Valley and San Francisco both being more important. Not sure how you can deny that.
There is absolutely nothing *wrong* with Oakland, I just don't think it is a match for Cleveland.
Are you sure about that UC Berkeley statement... I have been there around campus and must have missed that part that was in Oakland...exactly what part of campus are you referring to?
"It is without a doubt the least important and successful branch of the 3" - grapico
"Least important" isnt the most apt term when evaluating Oakland's contributions.
Yes, Each of the 3 largest cities play an important part in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Oakland,
handles 99% of all containerized goods moving through Northern California. That's $33 Billion Dollars pumping through the region's economy each year.
“Nearly 450,000 jobs in California are related in some way to the amount of cargo that comes into Oakland,†said U.S. Congresswoman Barbara Lee, who represents the East Bay’s Ninth District, in her remarks. “It [Port of Oakland] has become one of the most important economic engines in the Bay Area." US Army Corps of Engineers
So, it's impossible to consider "Oakland's contributions" as least important or minor.
"Are you sure about that UC Berkeley statement." - grapico
Yes, according to map of the University of California campus, the map of the Oakland city limits, and the history of the college.
University of California, Berkeley campus in pink. (Notice the large green space right below the campus) (You can actually see Oakland's triangular tip) //pics4.city-data.com/mapszip/zma30090.png
There's a whole new generation of esteemed, highly skilled and progressive inhabitants that are only too happy to make Cleveland their home base.
Certainly, with Cleveland having become a world renowned healthcare mecca, there's an ever increasing torrent of professionals flocking to our city ... discovering cultural riches and an interesting city that supercedes anything that Oakland can offer.
Cleveland "standstall" onit'sown, while Oakland is a mere sibling that lurks in the smoggy ( and foggy ) shadows of SanFrancisco.
I'd rather live in Cleveland, a city with some of the most affluent and upscale suburbs in America ... leafyenclaveswhereonecan purchase amansionbehindivyladenwallsforafewhundredthousanddollars ... while in Oakland, a few hundred thousand dollars "might get you a 1 bedroom ranch ( basically a shoebox sized home ) ... 2 bedrooms if you're lucky!
Cleveland's physical setting amid rolling hills and high ridges near a beautiful GREAT LAKE is also a strong point for the city ... and NO EARTHQUAKES, FIRESTORMSORMUDSLIDESTOCONTENDWITH HERE.
I'll take Cleveland ANY DAY over Oakland, and a great many other's are doing just that ... too!
Oakland lurks no more in the shadows of SF than San Jose does. It even has its own international airport (OAK)... its on the map much more so than say
And there's a reason why you can purchase a home in Cleveland for cheap... it's in Ohio. Cleveland is firmly part of the Rustbelt... the working class in Cleveland at this point is far more "diseased and afflicted" by the economy than the working class in Oakland and has been for 30 years running. There are more educational opportunities in Oakland as well... the laundry list of higher education in Oakland includes:
Laney College
Peralta College
Merritt College
Mills College
Patten University
Lincoln University
California College of the Arts
Holy Names University
St. Mary's College
etc. and with CAL up the street.
Do you honestly think that Oakland is devoid of affluent suburban-esque neighborhoods? Seriously? Let's throw a few pictures into the mix so its not just me talking at you...
That's what about a fourth of Oakland looks like so is your real point that you get more for the money in Cleveland? Well, ever heard the adage you get what you pay for? It's true.
What you WON'T get in Cleveland is the ridiculously-varied culinary scene, the thriving music and arts community, the ethnic integration, the weather, the absolutely stunning setting and access to nature of Oakland.
So there is a lot of poverty in Oakland as everyone knows, but there is also a huge number of well-to-do, affluent, highly educated and extremely sophisticated households of all races and nationalities-in true Bay Area fashion.
African American Households Earning $200,000+, 2009 City of Oakland, California 1,005 Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH CSA 373
Furthermore, when it comes to highly skilled and esteemed, Oakland's educational attainment levels runs circles around Cleveland's.
Adults Age 25+ with a Bachelor's Degree, 2005-2009
Oakland, CA 36.2%
Cleveland, OH 13.7%
Adults Age 25+ with a Graduate Degree, 2005-2009
Oakland, CA 15.3%
Cleveland, OH 5.2%
As far as attracting people from around the world: Foreign Born Population, 2005-2009
Oakland, CA 28.1%
Cleveland, OH 4.9%
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I'd rather live in Cleveland, a city with some of the most affluent and upscale suburbs in America
Oakland has very affluent suburbs but some of the city itself has several very affluent neighborhoods.
According to Onboard LLC
Oakland Neighborhoods by Average Family Income, $70,000+(2008)
Hiller Highlands/ Panoramic Hill $231,393
Waterfront Warehouse District-Jack London Square $211,235
Claremont $208,664
Piedmont Pines $194,716
Montclair $185,247
Crocker Highlands $176,462
Merriewood $162,534
Upper Rockridge $160,594
Forestland $158,826
Sheperd Canyon $148,168
Rockridge $143,605
Glen Highlands $143,538
Sheffield Village $135,575
Sequoyah $131,296
Trestle Glen $131,035
Crestmont/ Woodminster $129,090
Oakmore $123,750
Caballo Hills $121,583
Leona Heights $121,583
Skyline-Hillcrest Estates $121,583
Chabot Park $119,790
Redwood Heights $111,814
Oak Knoll/ Golf Links $95,110
Lincoln Highlands $94,269
Fairview Park $92,833
Glenview $91,993
Shafter $87,278
Lakeshore $83,415
Maxwell Park $74,057
Upper Dimond $72,309
Jefferson/ Harrington $71,553
Eastmont Hills $70,694
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... leafyenclaveswhereonecan purchase amansionbehindivyladenwallsforafewhundredthousanddollars ... while in Oakland, a few hundred thousand dollars "might get you a 1 bedroom ranch ( basically a shoebox sized home ) ... 2 bedrooms if you're lucky!
True, but that's no different from any other very expensive part of the country.
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Cleveland's physical setting amid rolling hills and high ridges near a beautiful GREAT LAKE is also a strong point for the city ... and NO EARTHQUAKES, FIRESTORMSORMUDSLIDESTOCONTENDWITH HERE.
They both have pluses and minuses as far as setting. I dont think the threat of natural catastrophe in Oakland is less appealling than Cleveland's horrendously stuffy summers and ridiculously cold winters.
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I'll take Cleveland ANY DAY over Oakland, and a great many other's are doing just that ... too!
Im happy for you and I share in your glee that Cleveland is on the rise.
IMO, the two things Cleveland has which are untouchable:
1. Cleveland Orchestra--No denying. One of the best in the whole country.
2. Cleveland Clinic--No denying. One of the best medical centers in the whole country.
I haven't really spent much time in either city, honestly.
All I know is, aside from Los Angeles, Oakland is the only other big California city that I felt "at home" in.
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while in Oakland, a few hundred thousand dollars "might get you a 1 bedroom ranch ( basically a shoebox sized home ) ... 2 bedrooms if you're lucky! 
