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ATL is on a whole different level than any of the cities mentioned on here when it comes to mass transit. this thread would be a lot more interesting if atlanta was removed.
While I see your point, I have to disagree with you slightly. I would say only NYC is head and shoulders above all systems. And from what I hear, Chicago as well. Think about DC like this, with all of the mass transit options, it's traffic is still no better than Atlanta's. And also, I'm not that convinced that DC is that superior, but I'd be interested in seeing the data that would support this claim.
D.C. metro system alone has more riders than Chicago's entire rail systems put together including the "L" elevated subway and Metra Commuter rail combined. That's not even including DC's commuter rail Marc and VRE. Metro in Q2 had a daily ridership of 1,044,000 people. New York and DC are the only subway systems in the US that have over a million daily riders. Marta has about 25% of that in daily ridership. There really is no comparision.
Houston has a superb bus system and a growing light-rail system. And Miami has the metromovers downtown(one of a kind), and the metro train stations that go all over Dade-County, then those metro trains connect with Tri-Rail(South Florida's version of metrolink) which goes all the way from West Palm Beach to South Miami-Dade.
If you're talking about usefulness (as in you're actually trying to live without a car in the city), I'd say LA's is likely the best. It certainly doesn't provide enough coverage for a metro of its size, but if you live off of it, it's amazing.
If you're talking about usefulness (as in you're actually trying to live without a car in the city), I'd say LA's is likely the best. It certainly doesn't provide enough coverage for a metro of its size, but if you live off of it, it's amazing.
I would assume they're ,ost likely talking about usefulness. I was thinking LA's as well, but its coverage doesn't cover the size. In that case, that's where I see Atlanta excelling.
I would assume they're ,ost likely talking about usefulness. I was thinking LA's as well, but its coverage doesn't cover the size. In that case, that's where I see Atlanta excelling.
It doesn't cover the size of LA's metro, but it covers a far larger absolute area which gives you, if you live along the routes or close to a hub, access to simply more of just about anything via mass transit. This is why I say LA's is more useful despite not covering as large of a percentage.
I think there's also something to be said for LA's bus system which is actually gone through some major changes in the last decade with a lot of bus rapid transit-esque lines being created.
Wow... ok... I have to say this thread should be flagged as one of the most immature ones I have seen in recent history all together....
That aside and not to link my previous comment with any person I do want to make just a few general observations.
- People compare Sunbelt cities separately all of the time and often apart from rust belt and northeastern cities in many ways and the list of cities I think is a fairly good list of the major cities in the sunbelt, even though some are much bigger or smaller. Florida should be included... they have weak transit connections, even amongst some cities of similar size. It is what it is and we can all learn from that for the better or for the worst.
-Our discussions on the thread, poll aside, doesn't have to be just about picking #1. By all means compare Charlotte and Tampa or New Orleans and Jacksonville. Maybe we can learn something interesting on bus use strategies.
-There isn't much demand to connect Birmingham to Atlanta via transit. The cities are further apart both geographically and the economic structure of the businesses they attract. Interstate, and long distance rail is what makes sense to connect the cities and these things exist. Either way, I don't see what that has to do about how well Atlanta handles its mass transit operations.
-To the douche that thinks Atlanta is just surrounded by cotton fields and inbred hicks... c'mon really? What are you a grade schooler from the early 1800s? Atlanta is a first class city and there are many fine people here and I don't think any discussions of any areas need this level immaturity and name calling. It is unproductive. It is mean spirited and to be quite frank people are just going to think your arguments don't hold on their merits alone, so you resort to name calling. Ironically, there really aren't
-Atlanta is near the foothills of the Appalachians... You won't get much of a mountain view from the city, but lots of rolling hills. For those of us who live here we know the northern suburbs are encroaching on the first mountains of what use to be a huge mountain chain hundreds of millions of years ago. Over time they have eroded down considerably of course, but they offer gorgeous views, great hiking/camping/recreational areas.
-I disagree with the sentiments we shouldn't compare to Atlanta to larger systems. Are system is nowhere near as big as the DC Metro and we do not get the same overall ridership, but we get about about third of and also have about a third of the coverage. The two rail systems were developed in the same era, using the same technologies and strategies. I wouldn't dare to say our system is more expansive, but the usage characteristics and the implementation of a Metro Line is very similar to the usage characteristics and implementation of a MARTA line. Some people call MARTA the kid brother of the DC Metro. There is some truth to this. These are two cities worth comparing is people can move their minds outside just comparing the total size of systems.
-I haven't used LA's system. I know they have had alot of positive change and have gotten to truly implement different types of transit technologies and wish I could spend more time there to experience it and see how it works and integrates first hand. Bus connections to the airport are nice, but when I travel in most cases having to transfer around alot in an unknown city isn't ideal. I wish more cities connected their airports better. It is great you guys have plans to strengthen that and I can't wait to see it. Until then... I'll just take a taxi.
-Dallas-Ft. Worth comment: I think there is a commuter rail the goes from Ft Worth. to Dallas. I also believe they are planning another light rail to connect to DFW. This city has me worried about Atlanta proposing Light Rail technology. After reading up on Dallas and Charlotte I am in awe of the effects of a short a light rail leading the urban core, but it seems to be too slow to attract and carry a high ridership across town or throughout the region. (In contrast...heavy rail travels faster, but passes by more areas without providing as many local stations)
-Miami... The little line that could. The only problems here is that there is one line. It doesn't connect to the airport and it doesn't follow along some of the densest growth in the city (close to the coast going north). I've heard there are plans to the built it to the airport. I travel here frequently and would love to see that happen. The downtown people mover. It only provides service to 30,000 people/day and it just looks ugly on the streetscape, but it is a really good intown/ car traffic separated circulator. It would probably handle many more people if there were more/better heavy/light rail lines traveling to downtown, so I guess I have mixed feelings. I think circulators are important, but they need a built out systems and need to be implemented in more visually appealing ways on the streetscape. Atlanta could use a better intown circulator to connect to MARTA's heavy rail stations.
-New Orleans: Is very unique to this sunbelt city discussion for many respects. It is an older city, but it is also very company geographically. There are good streetcar lines for some in-town neighborhoods. In most areas people need to use cars or bus, but the city has a really good urban/grid street system that can handle lots of local traffic and they are good for building bus routes. The city is also bisected by a very wiiide and deeep river. Much more so then most other cities bordered on a river. It is very hard/expensive to bridge over and almost impossible to tunnel under. That said the connections across river are limited to a few slow ferries and a couple of bridges. There is also a definite historical nostalgia to using an old street car line in an older southern city. (I wish this was more common in most of the cities listed above)
Finally, There is alot of good potential for good, positive discussions here. Sunbelt cities frequently are built differently from the rest of the country and we have different types of problems to overcome. If something works well in Charlotte or LA it might work well in Orlando, Nashville, or Atlanta.
Wow... ok... I have to say this thread should be flagged as one of the most immature ones I have seen in recent history all together....
That aside and not to link my previous comment with any person I do want to make just a few general observations.
- People compare Sunbelt cities separately all of the time and often apart from rust belt and northeastern cities in many ways and the list of cities I think is a fairly good list of the major cities in the sunbelt, even though some are much bigger or smaller. Florida should be included... they have weak transit connections, even amongst some cities of similar size. It is what it is and we can all learn from that for the better or for the worst.
-Our discussions on the thread, poll aside, doesn't have to be just about picking #1. By all means compare Charlotte and Tampa or New Orleans and Jacksonville. Maybe we can learn something interesting on bus use strategies.
-There isn't much demand to connect Birmingham to Atlanta via transit. The cities are further apart both geographically and the economic structure of the businesses they attract. Interstate, and long distance rail is what makes sense to connect the cities and these things exist. Either way, I don't see what that has to do about how well Atlanta handles its mass transit operations.
-To the douche that thinks Atlanta is just surrounded by cotton fields and inbred hicks... c'mon really? What are you a grade schooler from the early 1800s? Atlanta is a first class city and there are many fine people here and I don't think any discussions of any areas need this level immaturity and name calling. It is unproductive. It is mean spirited and to be quite frank people are just going to think your arguments don't hold on their merits alone, so you resort to name calling. Ironically, there really aren't
-Atlanta is near the foothills of the Appalachians... You won't get much of a mountain view from the city, but lots of rolling hills. For those of us who live here we know the northern suburbs are encroaching on the first mountains of what use to be a huge mountain chain hundreds of millions of years ago. Over time they have eroded down considerably of course, but they offer gorgeous views, great hiking/camping/recreational areas.
-I disagree with the sentiments we shouldn't compare to Atlanta to larger systems. Are system is nowhere near as big as the DC Metro and we do not get the same overall ridership, but we get about about third of and also have about a third of the coverage. The two rail systems were developed in the same era, using the same technologies and strategies. I wouldn't dare to say our system is more expansive, but the usage characteristics and the implementation of a Metro Line is very similar to the usage characteristics and implementation of a MARTA line. Some people call MARTA the kid brother of the DC Metro. There is some truth to this. These are two cities worth comparing is people can move their minds outside just comparing the total size of systems.
-I haven't used LA's system. I know they have had alot of positive change and have gotten to truly implement different types of transit technologies and wish I could spend more time there to experience it and see how it works and integrates first hand. Bus connections to the airport are nice, but when I travel in most cases having to transfer around alot in an unknown city isn't ideal. I wish more cities connected their airports better. It is great you guys have plans to strengthen that and I can't wait to see it. Until then... I'll just take a taxi.
-Dallas-Ft. Worth comment: I think there is a commuter rail the goes from Ft Worth. to Dallas. I also believe they are planning another light rail to connect to DFW. This city has me worried about Atlanta proposing Light Rail technology. After reading up on Dallas and Charlotte I am in awe of the effects of a short a light rail leading the urban core, but it seems to be too slow to attract and carry a high ridership across town or throughout the region. (In contrast...heavy rail travels faster, but passes by more areas without providing as many local stations)
-Miami... The little line that could. The only problems here is that there is one line. It doesn't connect to the airport and it doesn't follow along some of the densest growth in the city (close to the coast going north). I've heard there are plans to the built it to the airport. I travel here frequently and would love to see that happen. The downtown people mover. It only provides service to 30,000 people/day and it just looks ugly on the streetscape, but it is a really good intown/ car traffic separated circulator. It would probably handle many more people if there were more/better heavy/light rail lines traveling to downtown, so I guess I have mixed feelings. I think circulators are important, but they need a built out systems and need to be implemented in more visually appealing ways on the streetscape. Atlanta could use a better intown circulator to connect to MARTA's heavy rail stations.
-New Orleans: Is very unique to this sunbelt city discussion for many respects. It is an older city, but it is also very company geographically. There are good streetcar lines for some in-town neighborhoods. In most areas people need to use cars or bus, but the city has a really good urban/grid street system that can handle lots of local traffic and they are good for building bus routes. The city is also bisected by a very wiiide and deeep river. Much more so then most other cities bordered on a river. It is very hard/expensive to bridge over and almost impossible to tunnel under. That said the connections across river are limited to a few slow ferries and a couple of bridges. There is also a definite historical nostalgia to using an old street car line in an older southern city. (I wish this was more common in most of the cities listed above)
Finally, There is alot of good potential for good, positive discussions here. Sunbelt cities frequently are built differently from the rest of the country and we have different types of problems to overcome. If something works well in Charlotte or LA it might work well in Orlando, Nashville, or Atlanta.
Atlanta is by far the best transit system in the south. It is head and shoulders above it's southern counter parts. On a side note, Marta only gets about 1/4 the ridership of the DC metro. You said 1/3, but I'm sure it was just an honest mistake.
A Size of a city does matter. Tampa and Orlando and Jacksonville does not have the population to house such great mass transit systems.
Size Matters.
Neither does Vegas or charlotte. As well as RIDERSHIP goes into which one is better. So if size and population doesnt matter what is it? The Way trains or buses look? Do they get to their station on time? Can they run in snow?
BULL****, but continue to boost Atlanta up, just a weak comparison again
You could say something like Charlotte,Orlando,Tampa,Vegas,Austin,Jacksonville . They are in the same population category.
But to compare a metro for mass transit of 2 Million, hell even 1 million for Jacksonville to MASSIVE Metro's of 5Million + is weak.
You do know LA is over 3 times the size of Atlanta right?
Which is very mediocre..... and not gettin' much better anytime soon.
Thanx alot city council.
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