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I'm sorry I was misunderstood. I was sarcastically saying that Baltimore should demolish it's northern half, both suburban and not suburban, to create the delightful vacant quality that almost half of St. Louis has.
Remember, the point of this thread - which seems to have been lost - is what Baltimore could do to make itself more like St. Louis. So, yes, it would have a lot to do with what was once a "ghetto" in the city of St. Louis, but now looks more like a prairie. You wouldn't seriously suggest that Baltimore get rid of Johns Hopkins and its environs, would you? Whether Baltimore and St. Louis have problems is beside the point (both have major ones). It's about how best to deal with them.
Sorry the irony was lost on you. In any event, Baltimore - or any other old, historical, major city, for that matter - would be insane to mimic St. Louis' failed pattern. I love old US cities, and nothing p$%sses me off more than what a once great city like St. Louis has done to itself. I hope that leaves little room for confusion.
Oh i see. Totally flew over my head. I thought you were going along with the relevant discussion before you of suburban areas.
In any case, I think St. Louis is, like Baltimore, majority filled with neighborhoods not in decay. St. Louis has some absolutely beautiful areas.
No one is denying St. Louis doesn't have a problem. We know we have high crime, bad public schools, high poverty, not enough jobs, racial tension... Oh wait I just described Baltimore as well.
Sounds like you missed the point. This is a typical St. Louis response, and the reason the city is in the shape it's in. 63% - keep that number in mind when you make these microscopic assessments about how objective people like me are "wrong" or "misinformed".
It's a more a shame that St. Louis and its powers that be continue to point to token redevelopment (Washington Ave. corridor comes to mind) that has been on-going for almost 20 years (with little progress beyond that) as major achievements, all while buildings in the north end of the city have continued to be dismantled and sold for their bricks at an accelerating pace.
I'm not going to continue this pointless banter, BTW, because it has predictably ended with a St. Louis advocate (or series of them) proclaiming how the facts are subject to interpretation, and how "misunderstood" the city is by outsiders. Trust me on this; I understand all too well what St. Louis' history has been and what continues to be the case. I don't need education; St. Louisians need a reality check.
Agreed and the population dropped again.
I love St. Louis and it's potential, but I understand reality too.
The city government is like "Waa waa waa whaaat happened?" with no sense of personal and professional responsibility for the population drop.
Right now the suburbs are winning. The Metro east grew exponentially the past 10 years. AND THIS IS ILLINOIS. This side of the river is worse off economically than Missouri. Not to mention how many people moved to St. Charles county.
The city and county BOTH are now falling in population. They are going to have to merge everything, clean up shop, and start smart investments to gain ANY chance growing again.
If not, people are gonna keep moving farther and farther away from the city until everybody is dispersed in the small towns in the exurbs. Makes me sad to see my once great city dying like this.
baltimore lost over 30,000 people. cleveland is expected to lose at least 50,000, chicago lost 200,000. detroit is expected to lose over 70,000. pittsburgh is expected to lose at least 15,000.
population decline is a problem across all aging industrial cities. at the same time, quality of life is better in these cities than it was in 2000, with a resurgence of revitalization projects that have made neighborhoods more attractive to new residents, even if they do support a lower density than they once did. in all of these cities, buildings that once housed four or five families may now only house one or two, resulting in overall population decline. that's not necessarily a bad thing. all of these cities need to work on crime and education, but there isn't a single major city in this country that is attracting middle class families with school aged children. so let's be fair. st. louis and all of these other cities must improve in many ways, but it's not all doom and gloom just because a lot of people have left. a lot of good people have come and/or have stayed, and many neighborhoods are stronger than they were ten years ago.
I lived in KC for a short while many years ago and liked St Louis. That said, I'd take Baltimore over SL any day as a place to live: Fells Point, Federal Hill, Camden Yards, Ft McHenry, incredible seafood, the inner harbor - come on now. SL would love to have any of those. If Baltimore could trade anything with SL, it should be the Orioles for the Cards.
I lived in KC for a short while many years ago and liked St Louis. That said, I'd take Baltimore over SL any day as a place to live: Fells Point, Federal Hill, Camden Yards, Ft McHenry, incredible seafood, the inner harbor - come on now. SL would love to have any of those. If Baltimore could trade anything with SL, it should be the Orioles for the Cards.
all great places indeed, but stl has soulard, lafayette square, central west end, the hill, benton park, cherokee street, south grand, forest park, the loop, etc. the two cities have a lot of parallel neighborhoods and attractions.
all great places indeed, but stl has soulard, lafayette square, central west end, the hill, benton park, cherokee street, south grand, forest park, the loop, etc. the two cities have a lot of parallel neighborhoods and attractions.
I do like SL, but I'm a water person. I'll take a Chesapeake harbor cruise over a walk by the Big Muddy any day.
I lived in KC for a short while many years ago and liked St Louis. That said, I'd take Baltimore over SL any day as a place to live: Fells Point, Federal Hill, Camden Yards, Ft McHenry, incredible seafood, the inner harbor - come on now. SL would love to have any of those. If Baltimore could trade anything with SL, it should be the Orioles for the Cards.
St. Louis already had the Orioles. We don't want them back.
The inner Harbor is great. St. Louis needs to make great strides to reconnect with our river front. Thats why were holding the Arch grounds design competion. http://www.cityarchrivercompetition.org/
On your same note, Baltimore would trade anything for Soulard, The arch, Busch Stadium, The central West End, Forest Park, The Wainwright Building, Clayton, Tower Grove/Benton Park, the hill, St. Louis hills.
All in all, both are great cities with plenty to be proud of.
Last edited by moorlander; 03-03-2011 at 03:00 PM..
Reason: oops, just noticed Slengels response above
I lived in Baltimore Maryland for two years and why I left is probably because of temporary insanity. I really loved Baltimore but i was young and unwise and did not know the opportunities afforded me living there. I grew up in St. Louis and well the crime is a little too much for me. When i lived there the St. Louis Whirl was a paper that glorified every crime in St. Louis. I have thought about this since I'm older that a city has a paper specifically designed to report crime and that blows my mind. How dark and sinister can that be? I used to love to read it being young and impressionable. That was like thirty-years ago. But these days I do more praying than anything.
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Makes me sad to see my once great city dying like this.
Baltimore vs. St.Louis
