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What does Buffalo or Detroit have to match Cleveland's:
1) Playhouse Square theater district
2) University Circle/Little Italy
3) Westside Market
4) Public Transportation rail and BRT system
5) Ohio City brewery district
Not to mention Healthcare (Cleveland Clinic), Universities (Case Western Reserve and nearby Oberlin), and other arts (Cleveland Orchestra).
What does Buffalo or Detroit have to match Cleveland's:
1) Playhouse Square theater district
The Fox Theatre and the Fillmore are next door to each other while the Detroit Opera house is across Grand Circus Park with the Music Hall for Preforming Arts down the block from there. Then as you go north towards Midtown, there's the Masonic Theatre. Then within Midtown, there's the Majestic, the Orchestra Hall, the Bonstelle, and the Woodward Theatre which is currently being renovated. Then, still going north, you have the Fisher Theatre in the Fisher Building.
It's not really one city block like in Cleveland, but Detroit certainly has the quantity.
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2) University Circle/Little Italy
Wayne State/Woodbridge.
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3) Westside Market
Eastern Market
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4) Public Transportation rail and BRT system
Well, there's the People Mover (I'm afraid Cleveland gets a point there)... but Detroit is on track to start building light rail this fall.
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5) Ohio City brewery district
Rivertown.
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Not to mention Healthcare (Cleveland Clinic), Universities (Case Western Reserve and nearby Oberlin), and other arts (Cleveland Orchestra).
Detroit Medical Center and the Henry Ford Hospital, University of Detroit Mercy and Marygrove College, and the Detroit Institute of Arts.
Here are my two cents. Here is where I compare the three cities. I know most about Detroit, the least about Buffalo, but I know about all three - at least enough to make some valid comparisons.
Detroit - Its surrounding metro area, whether the 4.2 million MSA, or the 5.-something CSA stands alone. Its the only metro area in the midwest that comes remotely close to the population of the Chicagoland area - I mean not quite but even if metro Detroit is a distant second, anywhere else is a distant third. I know some will throw out Minneapolis - yes - but it feels a little isolated, not quite Denver or Seattle, but still kind of "out there"
But Oakland County is a virtual carbon copy of Chicagos north and west suburbs (DuPage/Lake, N-NW Cook) (basically white collared, lots of office buildings, shopping, chain restaurants, overall nice but suburban), while Detroit downriver/Wayne County suburbs are like Chicagos SW suburbs through NW Indiana (blue collar, not as many amenities, industrial, more racial tensions).
Now I know we are comparing city propers, but because the wider Detroit region is so big, there is IMO clearly more to do than in the other two in the downtown/midtown area with its theaters, casinos, sports stadiums, and museum, plus its bars, restaurants, etc.
I also will say that Detroits African American heritage is stronger than the other two, more on par with Chicago, as well as having some of the most beautiful and affluent majority AA neighborhoods in the city limit in the country (Palmer Woods, University District, North Rosedale Park, Boston Edison). Metro Detroit also clearly has more immigrants/foreign born, with the largest Arab/Assyrian (Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, etc. both Christian and Muslim) population in the country. There are also very unique one of a kind museums in the suburbs that have no comparison elsewhere (Henry Ford-Greenfield Village).
However, the big area that holds Detroit back of course, more than other city in the country, is that most of the city looks truly frightening. All cities have ghettos, run down areas with crime and poverty. In this case Detroit is not unique. What is unique is that Detroit simply looks post-apocalyptic (more than other rustbelt cities even). The Devils night.arson that leaves house burnout, other literally falling apart, overgrown with trees, knee high grass, with possessions of all kinds scattered in houses, stores, school, and factories truly makes Detroit look spooky. Whatever dysfunction other cities have, other cities are much quicker to track down property owners, have the funds to tear down abandoned buildings, mow the vacant lots, make it simpler to build something new - whether a park, parking lot, warehouse, or what have you.
Cleveland -
Cleveland is similar to Detroit, IMO, in that it did experience a very similar economic decline in its industrial base, and lost about the same % of people from the city limit, with the same sluggish growth in its metro area. HOWEVER, Cleveland as a city, despite its industrial/rustbelt landscape, has managed its decline clearly better than Detroit. Its wider downtown area is more blight-free, its westside, has fully intact neighborhoods, (IE: Ohio City/Tremont, etc. feel like a scaled down, more laid back version of Wicker Park/Logan Square in Chicago, with a mix of Puerto Ricans and hipsters/artsy types). The east side is overall bad, but more like Chicagos south side, where the urban decay has been more managed, (tearing down abandoned structures, mowing vacant lots, making it easy to build something else in its place even at a much lower density).
However, Cleveland metro is still half the size of metro Detroit, and it clearly feels like there is less to do in and around downtown, despite the fact that its in better aesthetic/physical shape.
I will also say, that although the surrounding metro, while not as large or extensive as metro Detroit, definitely has just as much suburbs that have just as much character as you will find in any metro area. Cleveland Heights and Lakewood are mirror images of Chicagos' Oak Park and Evanston. (eclectic, diverse, walkable, liberal). Cleveland while it doesn't have a high rate of immigration, has done a great job in promoting and preserving its European ethnic heritage. In terms of this, Cleveland is more similar to Chicago (IE: Clevelands Little Italy between awesome Coventry and University Circle is considered one of the best Little Italys in the midwest), in addition to Italian culture, there is strong eastern European and Jewish culture as well). The wealthy exurbs on the east side, like Chagrin Falls are something out of a Thomas Kincade painting, and were founded by New England settlers from Connecticut.
Buffalo, I know least about, however, I personally find Buffalo looks and feels a lot like Milwaukee (similar sizes). In that it has a lot in common with other great lakes cities, but is smaller than most of the others, that can still be called a city. However, just like Milwaukee, Buffalo is less than two hours away from one of the two world class cities on the Great Lakes. Now granted Toronto is in another country, but Buffalo is similarly proximate to Toronto, the way Milwaukee is proximate to Chicago.
This means, that Buffalo residents can take advantage of all the culture and excitement of Toronto very easily as a day trip just like Milwaukeans can go to Chicago, and the economic might of Chicago and Toronto can and I think in some ways does benefit Milwaukee and Buffalo respectively due to proximity.
What does Buffalo or Detroit have to match Cleveland's:
1) Playhouse Square theater district
2) University Circle/Little Italy
3) Westside Market
4) Public Transportation rail and BRT system
5) Ohio City brewery district
Not to mention Healthcare (Cleveland Clinic), Universities (Case Western Reserve and nearby Oberlin), and other arts (Cleveland Orchestra).
What does Buffalo or Detroit have to match Cleveland's:
1) Playhouse Square theater district
2) University Circle/Little Italy
3) Westside Market
4) Public Transportation rail and BRT system
5) Ohio City brewery district
Not to mention Healthcare (Cleveland Clinic), Universities (Case Western Reserve and nearby Oberlin), and other arts (Cleveland Orchestra).
Just to spur conversation...
Overall, Cleveland wins this...especially recently, with all the new construction momentum. BUT, I think you cherry-picked things that neither can compare to...
Playhouse Square: "is the second-largest theater complex in the United States (second only to New York City's Lincoln Center)." Playhouse Square Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This is a true gem for the city, left over from the old money.
University Circle/Little Italy: combined rivals urban neighborhoods in Chicago. What is there... 30+ restaurants, Cleveland Orchestra, 6-7 museums, Cleveland Institute of Art, Cleveland Institute of Music, Case Western Reserve University....heck it even have two train stops and BRT access.
Here are my two cents. Here is where I compare the three cities. I know most about Detroit, the least about Buffalo, but I know about all three - at least enough to make some valid comparisons.
Detroit - Its surrounding metro area, whether the 4.2 million MSA, or the 5.-something CSA stands alone. Its the only metro area in the midwest that comes remotely close to the population of the Chicagoland area - I mean not quite but even if metro Detroit is a distant second, anywhere else is a distant third. I know some will throw out Minneapolis - yes - but it feels a little isolated, not quite Denver or Seattle, but still kind of "out there"
But Oakland County is a virtual carbon copy of Chicagos north and west suburbs (DuPage/Lake, N-NW Cook) (basically white collared, lots of office buildings, shopping, chain restaurants, overall nice but suburban), while Detroit downriver/Wayne County suburbs are like Chicagos SW suburbs through NW Indiana (blue collar, not as many amenities, industrial, more racial tensions).
Now I know we are comparing city propers, but because the wider Detroit region is so big, there is IMO clearly more to do than in the other two in the downtown/midtown area with its theaters, casinos, sports stadiums, and museum, plus its bars, restaurants, etc.
I also will say that Detroits African American heritage is stronger than the other two, more on par with Chicago, as well as having some of the most beautiful and affluent majority AA neighborhoods in the city limit in the country (Palmer Woods, University District, North Rosedale Park, Boston Edison). Metro Detroit also clearly has more immigrants/foreign born, with the largest Arab/Assyrian (Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, etc. both Christian and Muslim) population in the country. There are also very unique one of a kind museums in the suburbs that have no comparison elsewhere (Henry Ford-Greenfield Village).
However, the big area that holds Detroit back of course, more than other city in the country, is that most of the city looks truly frightening. All cities have ghettos, run down areas with crime and poverty. In this case Detroit is not unique. What is unique is that Detroit simply looks post-apocalyptic (more than other rustbelt cities even). The Devils night.arson that leaves house burnout, other literally falling apart, overgrown with trees, knee high grass, with possessions of all kinds scattered in houses, stores, school, and factories truly makes Detroit look spooky. Whatever dysfunction other cities have, other cities are much quicker to track down property owners, have the funds to tear down abandoned buildings, mow the vacant lots, make it simpler to build something new - whether a park, parking lot, warehouse, or what have you.
Cleveland -
Cleveland is similar to Detroit, IMO, in that it did experience a very similar economic decline in its industrial base, and lost about the same % of people from the city limit, with the same sluggish growth in its metro area. HOWEVER, Cleveland as a city, despite its industrial/rustbelt landscape, has managed its decline clearly better than Detroit. Its wider downtown area is more blight-free, its westside, has fully intact neighborhoods, (IE: Ohio City/Tremont, etc. feel like a scaled down, more laid back version of Wicker Park/Logan Square in Chicago, with a mix of Puerto Ricans and hipsters/artsy types). The east side is overall bad, but more like Chicagos south side, where the urban decay has been more managed, (tearing down abandoned structures, mowing vacant lots, making it easy to build something else in its place even at a much lower density).
However, Cleveland metro is still half the size of metro Detroit, and it clearly feels like there is less to do in and around downtown, despite the fact that its in better aesthetic/physical shape.
I will also say, that although the surrounding metro, while not as large or extensive as metro Detroit, definitely has just as much suburbs that have just as much character as you will find in any metro area. Cleveland Heights and Lakewood are mirror images of Chicagos' Oak Park and Evanston. (eclectic, diverse, walkable, liberal). Cleveland while it doesn't have a high rate of immigration, has done a great job in promoting and preserving its European ethnic heritage. In terms of this, Cleveland is more similar to Chicago (IE: Clevelands Little Italy between awesome Coventry and University Circle is considered one of the best Little Italys in the midwest), in addition to Italian culture, there is strong eastern European and Jewish culture as well). The wealthy exurbs on the east side, like Chagrin Falls are something out of a Thomas Kincade painting, and were founded by New England settlers from Connecticut.
Buffalo, I know least about, however, I personally find Buffalo looks and feels a lot like Milwaukee (similar sizes). In that it has a lot in common with other great lakes cities, but is smaller than most of the others, that can still be called a city. However, just like Milwaukee, Buffalo is less than two hours away from one of the two world class cities on the Great Lakes. Now granted Toronto is in another country, but Buffalo is similarly proximate to Toronto, the way Milwaukee is proximate to Chicago.
This means, that Buffalo residents can take advantage of all the culture and excitement of Toronto very easily as a day trip just like Milwaukeans can go to Chicago, and the economic might of Chicago and Toronto can and I think in some ways does benefit Milwaukee and Buffalo respectively due to proximity.
Thats my take on the comparison.
One of the best posts I have ever seen on CD. Having spent time in all these cities, I agree.
What does Buffalo or Detroit have to match Cleveland's:
1) Playhouse Square theater district
2) University Circle/Little Italy
3) Westside Market
4) Public Transportation rail and BRT system
5) Ohio City brewery district
Not to mention Healthcare (Cleveland Clinic), Universities (Case Western Reserve and nearby Oberlin), and other arts (Cleveland Orchestra).
Just to spur conversation...
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian
The Fox Theatre and the Fillmore are next door to each other while the Detroit Opera house is across Grand Circus Park with the Music Hall for Preforming Arts down the block from there. Then as you go north towards Midtown, there's the Masonic Theatre. Then within Midtown, there's the Majestic, the Orchestra Hall, the Bonstelle, and the Woodward Theatre which is currently being renovated. Then, still going north, you have the Fisher Theatre in the Fisher Building.
It's not really one city block like in Cleveland, but Detroit certainly has the quantity.
Wayne State/Woodbridge.
Eastern Market
Well, there's the People Mover (I'm afraid Cleveland gets a point there)... but Detroit is on track to start building light rail this fall.
Rivertown.
Detroit Medical Center and the Henry Ford Hospital, University of Detroit Mercy and Marygrove College, and the Detroit Institute of Arts.
More rave reviews of Cleveland this week from outsiders! High-lighting the inner city neighborhoods of Tremont, Ohio City, and Detroit-Shoreway/Gordon Sqaure:
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