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We are talking city not metro. SAvannah one of the busiest ports. Brunswick port, Warner Robins AFB. Fort Benning. Kings Bays Nuclear Submarine Base. Fort Stewart, Fort Gordon, Dobbins ARB. GA is very important for the security of the USA. Sorry TN cannot top that. Georgia's economy Is far greater even without the "city". Memphis is a cesspool and Chattanooga and Knoxville are very mediocre. I love Chatt though. And most of Chatts suburbs are in Ga.
As far as the security of the USA & military R&D go, I do want to point out that Tennessee has Fort Campbell (actually split w/Kentucky), ORNL (DoE), and AEDC (Air Force wind tunnel testing facility)....as well as a number of other things. Tennessee might not "top" GA in that department, but don't act like there's nothing here as far as that goes.
And if Chattanooga and Knoxville are very mediocre, what does that make Augusta and Columbus? Super duper awesome Georgia towns?
And you can call Memphis a cesspool if you like, but lest we not forget that Georgia has its fair share of problems.
We are talking city not metro. SAvannah one of the busiest ports. Brunswick port, Warner Robins AFB. Fort Benning. Kings Bays Nuclear Submarine Base. Fort Stewart, Fort Gordon, Dobbins ARB. GA is very important for the security of the USA. Sorry TN cannot top that
First of all, it's really difficult to separate the city from the overall metro as if the stuff that exists in any suburb isn't there because of the primary city. Secondly, we're not talking about just military bases and such (which is always subject to change with the stroke of a pen via BRAC). Overall, TN would be in a much better position without Nashville than GA would be without Atlanta. As a matter of fact, if you remove Nashville, TN is still left with its largest city, two CSAs over 1 million, the busiest airport for cargo traffic in the world, a major league professional sports team, and five F500 headquarters. GA would just have two F500 headquarters and none of those other assets. Savannah of course is unique and historic and it has a burgeoning port, but outside of that, there's nothing really extraordinary about the rest of GA. It's pretty average for a Southern state.
First of all, it's really difficult to separate the city from the overall metro as if the stuff that exists in any suburb isn't there because of the primary city. Secondly, we're not talking about just military bases and such (which is always subject to change with the stroke of a pen via BRAC). Overall, TN would be in a much better position without Nashville than GA would be without Atlanta. As a matter of fact, if you remove Nashville, TN is still left with its largest city, two CSAs over 1 million, the busiest airport for cargo traffic in the world, a major league professional sports team, and five F500 headquarters. GA would just have two F500 headquarters and none of those other assets. Savannah of course is unique and historic and it has a burgeoning port, but outside of that, there's nothing really extraordinary about the rest of GA. It's pretty average for a Southern state.
That's why it's ridiculous to only consider the municipalities of Atlanta and Nashville. You think Georgia would have that many people without an actual city of Atlanta? You think Hartsfield-Jackson will retain its status as the world's busiest airport without a city of Atlanta, or that the companies in the suburbs will stay without a city of Atlanta? Of course the same goes for Tennessee, but to a much, much lesser extent.
So in another thread it came up that Georgia without Atlanta Is just MS,AL or Tennessee.However a few people interjected and stated that now way Georgia was even close.So what does that mean.Should it just be gdp vs gdp,population or health of the economy.Which would be more popular overall?
Big cities are not the only thing that should be considered.This is a state to state comparison without both of its largest and most influential cities,I think its fair not to include MSA of these two cities.Mainly because Atlanta sprawl is over a quarter of the state.Some of those are completely autonomous of Atlanta.
I think it is also appropriate to talk about this same comparison for other states vs Georgia also.
P.S. Lets not make this a tear down of these states.They are all great places.
Tennessee would at least still have Memphis. What would Atlanta have?
Savannah, I guess, which is beautiful and fun for tourists, but not anywhere near the size or economic engine that Memphis is...
Even though Tennessee does have more established cities, just taking the actual city of Atlanta away from georgia wouldn't make a dent in GA economy. Metros now, thats a little different lol.
Yes it would. For one thing, I'm willing to bet that at least half of metro Atlanta's GDP is coming from the city itself....that's typical of any large metro area.
Plus, take Atlanta proper out, and those suburbs barely exist. I know that you can interpret this question various ways and say "ALL other things stay the same," but the fact of the matter is that if Atlanta proper goes, a huge amount of intellectual capitol/manpower leaves Georgia, too.
That wouldn't happen to the same degree if you took Nashville out of the equation in Tennessee...
Yes it would. For one thing, I'm willing to bet that at least half of metro Atlanta's GDP is coming from the city itself....that's typical of any large metro area.
Plus, take Atlanta proper out, and those suburbs barely exist. I know that you can interpret this question various ways and say "ALL other things stay the same," but the fact of the matter is that if Atlanta proper goes, a huge amount of intellectual capitol/manpower leaves Georgia, too.
That wouldn't happen to the same degree if you took Nashville out of the equation in Tennessee...
True. Now that I think about it, I think Tennessee would kind of be like Kentucky if you removed Nashville. Memphis and Louisville are both river cities of about the same size and both are big air hubs for package delivery companies (FedEx in Memphis and UPS in Louisville), and Knoxville is just a bit larger than Lexington but both are home to their state's respective flagship universities. And even though they aren't an exact match, Chattanooga and Covington would kinda be equals of sorts. Interestingly, both states also have a "Tri Cities" area.
It's a bit harder to say which state Georgia would most resemble without Atlanta. The state has a larger splattering of smaller metros around 300K and below than most other Southern states who tend to have a little more of that population concentrated in their larger metros.
That's why it's ridiculous to only consider the municipalities of Atlanta and Nashville. You think Georgia would have that many people without an actual city of Atlanta? You think Hartsfield-Jackson will retain its status as the world's busiest airport without a city of Atlanta, or that the companies in the suburbs will stay without a city of Atlanta? Of course the same goes for Tennessee, but to a much, much lesser extent.
That's what I've been trying to say this whole time. If you "don't include" those cities, you shouldn't include anything that is coming in or out of them, which would absolutely destroy the transportation network and the economy as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn
Yes it would. For one thing, I'm willing to bet that at least half of metro Atlanta's GDP is coming from the city itself....that's typical of any large metro area.
Plus, take Atlanta proper out, and those suburbs barely exist. I know that you can interpret this question various ways and say "ALL other things stay the same," but the fact of the matter is that if Atlanta proper goes, a huge amount of intellectual capitol/manpower leaves Georgia, too.
That wouldn't happen to the same degree if you took Nashville out of the equation in Tennessee...
Again, that's the point I've been making. You can't separate suburbs from a city. Would they exist without the city being there? Possibly...especially if its a county seat. But would they be the major edge cities with office buildings, massive amounts of retail, corporate headquarters, and thousands of suburban homes if the primary city was not there? No. They cannot stand on their own.
A fair take on this would be rather than thinking purely in terms of population and statistics, how would Tennessee and Georgia compare without the impact of Nashville and Atlanta on their respective states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06
True. Now that I think about it, I think Tennessee would kind of be like Kentucky if you removed Nashville. Memphis and Louisville are both river cities of about the same size and both are big air hubs for package delivery companies (FedEx in Memphis and UPS in Louisville), and Knoxville is just a bit larger than Lexington but both are home to their state's respective flagship universities. And even though they aren't an exact match, Chattanooga and Covington would kinda be equals of sorts. Interestingly, both states also have a "Tri Cities" area.
It's a bit harder to say which state Georgia would most resemble without Atlanta. The state has a larger splattering of smaller metros around 300K and below than most other Southern states who tend to have a little more of that population concentrated in their larger metros.
Kentucky is a fair comparison, because the two states are very much topographically similar...but I think the mix of the cities of Alabama (Birmingham, Mobile, Huntsville, Montgomery) would be more comparable to the mix in Tennessee (Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Tri-Cities). Demographically, we're somewhat in between the two (fittingly).
Whoever said South Carolina as a comparison for Georgia wasn't too far off (in this case, NOT considering any of Atlanta's suburbs). Greenville, Columbia, Charleston to Augusta, Savannah, and Columbus. Not exact, but probably closer than Alabama would be.
Savannah is a tourist trap but not much else. Doesn't have the national importance Atlanta and Nashville do. Without Nasvhille, TN would still have Memphis which is almost an equal with Nashville. Georgia has no other metropolitan areas that even come close to Atlanta.
Kentucky is a fair comparison, because the two states are very much topographically similar...but I think the mix of the cities of Alabama (Birmingham, Mobile, Huntsville, Montgomery) would be more comparable to the mix in Tennessee (Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Tri-Cities). Demographically, we're somewhat in between the two (fittingly).
I mentioned Kentucky because there seem to be more similarities between Memphis/Knoxville and Louisville/Lexington, the (next) two largest metros within their states. As I said about Memphis and Louisville, they both have similar city populations (Memphis: 646,889, Louisville: 741,096) and metro populations (Memphis: 1,316,100, Louisville: 1,283,566). They are both river cities and have suburbs in neighboring states. You have the FedEx air hub in Memphis and the UPS air hub in Louisville. Both also have downtown entertainment districts: Beale Street in Memphis and Fourth Street Live in Louisville. Each city is also home to three F500 companies. I will say that demographically, Memphis and Birmingham are more similar with their majority Black populations than Memphis and Louisville are.
Of course, the main similarity between Lexington and Knoxville is that they are both mid-sized college towns, home of their respective states' flagship universities.
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