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View Poll Results: Chicago Vs. Toronto
Chicago 399 61.48%
Toronto 250 38.52%
Voters: 649. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-15-2015, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Toronto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownWonder View Post
could you imagine if Detroit hadn't experienced its fall? that city would have been amazing, i wish is could see detroit back in its hayday
Detroit has some amazing architecture and the urban form is actually quite appealing! I was driving down Michigan Ave and almost cried at the decay because I could only imagine how amazing that street would be in a city like T.O.. It would be gobbled up in an instant and transformed into an amazingly urban and hip arterial...

Still - if you look the gems of the past are still there and perhaps one of the finest exhibits of Americana are to be found in the Henry Ford!
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Old 03-16-2015, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Mishawaka, Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownWonder View Post
could you imagine if Detroit hadn't experienced its fall? that city would have been amazing, i wish is could see detroit back in its hayday
Perhaps, though even in its heyday as well as today Detroit lacks a good public transit system. Its bus system has holes in it everywhere, and I don't believe there is any sort of commuter rail in between the city and suburbs.

The architecture of the city is wondrous however. So many old buildings full of character and charm. I wish more of them were occupied, the hustle and bustle of the city in the 1960's must have been a great sight to admire.
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Old 03-16-2015, 12:03 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
Perhaps, though even in its heyday as well as today Detroit lacks a good public transit system. Its bus system has holes in it everywhere, and I don't believe there is any sort of commuter rail in between the city and suburbs.

The architecture of the city is wondrous however. So many old buildings full of character and charm. I wish more of them were occupied, the hustle and bustle of the city in the 1960's must have been a great sight to admire.
Detroit historically had a massive streetcar system and one of the largest public transit fleets in the world (at the time). However, the city rapidly dismantled the streetcar system approaching the middle of the 20th century with the last service run in 1956.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdAilment View Post
Lol, wtf? Toronto is WAY more diverse than what Detroit was in its heyday.
Eh . . . are you sure about that??



https://detroitography.files.wordpre...roups-1971.jpg
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:37 PM
 
5,951 posts, read 13,034,471 times
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Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post
I thought of an analogy for Chicago vs Toronto!

Toronto is the Tortoise and Chicago is the Hare. haha

Chicago got an explosive start and was catapulted to become one of the greatest cities in the world in only a century of existence. And then it slowed down.

Toronto has literally had a slow but steady growth until it's caught up with Chicago.
Agreed. Chicago obviously wins in terms of things like early skyscrapers (Toronto has very few in comparison as it was small), beautiful Catholic churches, historic white ethnic neighborhoods (, and urban black culture all things that are a product of its history). However, a lot of the massive inequalities in demographics as well as sectors of the city is also a legacy.

Toronto wins for lingering British commonwealth legacy, if that's your thing. I always thought that an anglophile American who doesn't want to completely leave his/her comfort zone, a Canadian city would be a perfect compromise (with images of the queen, royal this and that, classic architecture), but still North America

But yeah, Toronto has most definitely caught up. One reason for not only Torontos recent booming, but Canada in general is a lower corporate tax. I think its cool, because it proves you can have a liberal culture, yet a business friendly environment. Here in the US thats not so much the case, the places with the most business friendly, low corporate tax are in the states where the conservative culture is hard to adjust to.
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Old 03-16-2015, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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I know this isn't a thread about Detroit but does anyone think Detroit will come back?

As Fusion2 said, the core contains an impressive collection of old buildings, sounds like it has got some character. It would be a shame to just let it all keel over and die completely.

And given it's position on the US - CAN border, couldn't it be a great "bridge" metro between the two countries?

IDK, just some wild hopeful thoughts of mine. I asked the Detroit forum if it's a good place to move to and most people said the metro doesn't have the things large cities like CHI and TO have to attract and maintain a population of young professionals.
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Old 03-16-2015, 06:40 PM
 
2,829 posts, read 3,150,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_arkitect View Post
I know this isn't a thread about Detroit but does anyone think Detroit will come back?

As Fusion2 said, the core contains an impressive collection of old buildings, sounds like it has got some character. It would be a shame to just let it all keel over and die completely.

And given it's position on the US - CAN border, couldn't it be a great "bridge" metro between the two countries?

IDK, just some wild hopeful thoughts of mine. I asked the Detroit forum if it's a good place to move to and most people said the metro doesn't have the things large cities like CHI and TO have to attract and maintain a population of young professionals.
Here's an interesting article about Detroit. It actually compares the post-war development pattern between Detroit, Toronto, and Pittsburgh.

Detroit is making effort for sure, for example, its new light rail line that will run through downtown. However, I don't think it'll make any dramatic comeback anytime soon. The problems seen today in rust-belt cities like Detroit are not the work of one bad mayor or one bad decision, but a series of mismanagement and neglect that span several decades since WWII.
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Old 03-16-2015, 07:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Chicago boomed earlier, but it wasn't just the boom that has Toronto and many other cities catching up in population. There's also the massive decay and stagnation Chicago had within its urban area in the latter half of the 20th century which had the city lose about a million in population. The somewhat good thing is that Chicago seems to have hit an inflection point in its loss and seems to perhaps be once again going towards gaining again. Whether or not this will be an accelerated gain following the inflection point of turning from massive losses remains to be seen as there are still a lot of pretty tough issues the city has to currently deal with.
Census data on population growth for 2014 come out within the next 10 days for metropolitan statistical areas (MSA), combined statistical areas (CSA), and city proper populations (city) in May.

Population Estimates: Schedule of New Estimates - U.S Census Bureau

Which reminds me, I don't think Chicago has made any strides since hitting an "inflection" point. As you understand, Chicago and Chicagoland make up the lion's share of everything in Illinois from economics, to politics, to population.

Illinois state population declined from July 1, 2013 to July 1, 2014 and that can only translate to both Chicago and Chicagoland at-large but we will find out for sure within 10 days when the data for metropolitan areas is released;

Editorial: State's population loss a dire warning sign

It's entirely possible that Chicagoland is declining for the first time this millennium and if this is a new course being tacked then it could translate to the first time Chicagoland posts a population decline at the decennial census in 2020.
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Old 03-16-2015, 07:16 PM
 
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Ouch. That does not spell good things if your metro is losing population. It's job growth is mediocre as well. Is Chicago following the same route as it's other midwestern peers? I feel like it's too large though to go under what St. Louis, Cincinnati, and a few other midwestern cities have gone through.
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Old 03-16-2015, 07:17 PM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,242,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
A
But yeah, Toronto has most definitely caught up.
I don't see Toronto as having caught up, at all. I think it's closed some of the gap, but in terms of size, wealth, importance, etc. it's still a Houston-Dallas-Boston-Philly type city, so a bit behind Chicago (and a bit behind SF and DC too). Toronto is important but probably a level or half-level below that of Chicago, SF and DC (IMO).

I do see Toronto booming, and Chicago is frankly a laggard, but Chicago still has a significant head start, so the same trends would have to continue for decades for me to think they've drawn even. And in some respects (architecture, high culture, infrastructure, wealth, sense of place) I don't see Toronto matching Chicago in a very long time; probably not ever in our lifetimes.
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