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Eh, these aren't with their own ROW. Limited/Express/Select bus services exist in most major cities in developed countries--these are different from BRT which does have its own ROW. All of that is regardless of which agency and/or division the services are put under. I figured you weren't arguing that these services were equivalent to commuter rail, but apparently you believe it to be so. I'll just put in that we have very different ideas of what equivalent service means.
Do these buses routinely cover the same kind of distances in the same span of time that commuter rail service does and isn't susceptible to fluctuations in traffic? Does it do so moving anything with the same capacity per service that commuter rail does? That doesn't seem to be the case.
Some of these buses are probably stopgaps until the GO transit commuter rail service expansions finish, aren't they? If these buses were equivalent then what is the point of spending all those funds to do these commuter rail extensions?
Bottom line, what I was trying to say is they apart of the GO network. They may not carry the same amount of people as a train does, but thats because of the routes the cover, the areas they serve, and so on.
Bottom line, what I was trying to say is they apart of the GO network. They may not carry the same amount of people as a train does, but thats because of the routes the cover, the areas they serve, and so on.
Yea, I started that tangent and my bottom line was commuter rail which was irrespective of what transit agency covered it. Commuter rail and express bus are different--but they can be made similar by either having really bad commuter rail service (somehow having a shared track and roadway would do it) or really good bus service (having a dedicated right of way outside of traffic which GO's buses do not seem to have). Outside of that, I don't really see much of a comparison besides wanting to force some kind of comparison. If so, do it. Or is the comparison that they are run by the same agency? In that case, YEA YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT ON THAT METRA AS AN AGENCY DOES NOT RUN BUSES. However, I don't see much of a point.
Yeah there's many pictures online you can find. I was on it yesterday for the first time. They did a great job with it. Enjoyed some nice food down there and liked it. If there's a lot of people down there (but not too crowded), it'll be nice. Some parts had a comfortable amount of people though I wouldn't call it buzzing though I know people who went on other days who said it was buzzing.
In any case, I can't wait until the next phase is complete and open. There are also 3 new high rises/skyscrapers being built on the river as we speak and each will have their own riverwalk portions, so the accessibility of the river keeps getting better.
Good addition to the city and it will continue to expand and get better.
Reckon they'll keep expanding it to go up and down the forks? Would that make any sense? It'd be amazing if it connected all the way down to Ping Tom Park.
Anyhow, pictures would be great. The waterfront(s) are one of the main things Chicago has over Toronto at this point.
Reckon they'll keep expanding it to go up and down the forks? Would that make any sense? It'd be amazing if it connected all the way down to Ping Tom Park.
Anyhow, pictures would be great. The waterfront(s) are one of the main things Chicago has over Toronto at this point.
The next phase will expand it from La Salle all the way over to the Lake Street bridge. So essentially it will go from the lake all the way over to the south branch of the river eventually (right now it's to LaSalle Street which is still far). On the other side of that bridge, there are currently two skyscrapers under construction which will have their own riverwalks. You can kind of see that from this pic here: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/530/18...047ef792_h.jpg On the left side of that picture too, you can see a little of where the current riverwalk will be expanded to.
The other thing that excites me is the 606. The entrance of it is right near the Kennedy on Ashland Ave. I've already heard rumblings of them toying with the idea of expanding it east over/under the Kennedy to the river (and beyond). If the riverwalk was expanded north - it could be completely possible to walk/bike/whatever from the lake all the way over to West Logan Square/Humboldt Park without ever having to deal with cars. Of course the lake has the 18 miles path along it too, so I mean...it's quite exciting how they're expanding this and the possibilities of making a huge, continuous trail that links up beyond the lake/river area.
I guess right now though what you could do is essentially use the lakefront path, go to the riverwalk and in the very near future use one of those kayak rentals that will be opening up there (there are others in other parts of the river) and kayak up to near the 606, get off and enjoy another 3 miles of uninterrupted path through the heart of the city.
As far as south to Ping Tom Park and Chinatown - that would be really cool and it might be possible. Lend Lease bought that big parcel of land on the river from Harrison to Roosevelt for $1.5B a few weeks ago (which River City is in) with a 10 year development plan. Then right south of there is a huge site from Roosevelt down to Ping Tom Park that was just announced Related will be developing. It could be entirely possible to make a riverwalk in there. It would be utterly amazing if they expanded it not only down to PTP but also up to the 606. That would be ridiculous as far as walking/bike paths go through the heart of the urban city.
Last edited by marothisu; 06-15-2015 at 10:22 PM..
The next phase will expand it from La Salle all the way over to the Lake Street bridge. So essentially it will go from the lake all the way over to the south branch of the river eventually (right now it's to LaSalle Street which is still far). On the other side of that bridge, there are currently two skyscrapers under construction which will have their own riverwalks. You can kind of see that from this pic here: https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/530/18...047ef792_h.jpg On the left side of that picture too, you can see a little of where the current riverwalk will be expanded to.
The other thing that excites me is the 606. The entrance of it is right near the Kennedy on Ashland Ave. I've already heard rumblings of them toying with the idea of expanding it east over/under the Kennedy to the river (and beyond). If the riverwalk was expanded north - it could be completely possible to walk/bike/whatever from the lake all the way over to West Logan Square/Humboldt Park without ever having to deal with cars. Of course the lake has the 18 miles path along it too, so I mean...it's quite exciting how they're expanding this and the possibilities of making a huge, continuous trail that links up beyond the lake/river area.
I guess right now though what you could do is essentially use the lakefront path, go to the riverwalk and in the very near future use one of those kayak rentals that will be opening up there (there are others in other parts of the river) and kayak up to near the 606, get off and enjoy another 3 miles of uninterrupted path through the heart of the city.
As far as south to Ping Tom Park and Chinatown - that would be really cool and it might be possible. Lend Lease bought that big parcel of land on the river from Harrison to Roosevelt for $1.5B a few weeks ago (which River City is in) with a 10 year development plan. Then right south of there is a huge site from Roosevelt down to Ping Tom Park that was just announced Related will be developing. It could be entirely possible to make a riverwalk in there. It would be utterly amazing if they expanded it not only down to PTP but also up to the 606. That would be ridiculous as far as walking/bike paths go through the heart of the urban city.
Going North would be great, but it seems to me that it makes more sense for the city to prioritize going south with it instead to get rid of the stigma that the city is only taking care of the wealthy and gentrified neighborhoods.
Of course, there are a lot of things that it seems like Chicago could/should do that would really put in a higher tier, but the city isn't really having the greatest time right now. It's odd, because Chicago seems to have a lot of amazing low hanging fruit to make it amazing, but the city just doesn't have the funds to reach for them.
Then again, I'm all for road-dieting Lake Shore Drive and that's probably one of those things that should do wonders for the city but would **** most people off.
Going North would be great, but it seems to me that it makes more sense for the city to prioritize going south with it instead to get rid of the stigma that the city is only taking care of the wealthy and gentrified neighborhoods.
Of course, there are a lot of things that it seems like Chicago could/should do that would really put in a higher tier, but the city isn't really having the greatest time right now. It's odd, because Chicago seems to have a lot of amazing low hanging fruit to make it amazing, but the city just doesn't have the funds to reach for them.
Then again, I'm all for road-dieting Lake Shore Drive and that's probably one of those things that should do wonders for the city but would **** most people off.
Not sure I fully agree - I think people who complain about this type of stuff going on don't really understand investment and how it will work in the city's favor. The property values are already increasing around the 606, which means a lot more tax revenue for the city. There some people who ***** about the $5 or $10 million they spent (the rest were from the federal govt), but when you do the math it's good with the added tax revenue for the city. After a few years, the city's ROI will be close to 100% per year (but not quite since they'll need to spend money on up keep - but it will probably be very high). The 606 is cutting into a neighborhood that was in need too - and while some people will cry gentrification, it is providing help to a neighborhood in need (Humboldt Park) by giving them a great resource.
The riverwalk is the same story. Even if it subconsciously convinces only 30,000 people a year to visit the city who normally wouldn't for 3 days at an average of $200/night for a hotel, that's $3M/year in added hotel tax revenue. Not to mention the added tax revenue for eating out and whatever else. After a few years, the returns on the riverwalk will probably be very, very high. This is money that can be used to pump into other neighborhoods and it's a constant funding source for this. If you didn't have this funding source, then the money being pumped into neighborhoods would become stagnant. So this is a very good thing when you think about it.
So while the city needs all the money it can get, these projects (along with others going on now) will help that. Sometimes if you want to make money, you have to spend a little first. I don't know why people don't understand this simple economic fact.
Now, the two huge parcels of land on the south I mentioned that extend for probably over a mile north of PTP along the river are 75 acres and now have plans to develop them. Only an idiot developer wouldn't develop a riverwalk there. And it's going to cost the city next to nothing.If nothing else, if these two sites get fully developed, it could allow people to walk on the river from PTP to the South Loop.
I understand what you mean about the stigma, but they need to do these things to have extra funding going into those areas. Not to mention there ARE things going on in the south side. Remember, the city offered up land on the SS for the Obama Library, not the north side. There are new things going on in Jackson Park and Pullman right now too. Lake Shore Drive was also recently expanded on the SS. Investment has been coming into Bronzeville for the last few years as well. Theaster Gates also has his projects on the SS which the city has been very kind to him by selling buildings for $1 so he can revitalize areas.
Not sure I fully agree - I think people who complain about this type of stuff going on don't really understand investment and how it will work in the city's favor. The property values are already increasing around the 606, which means a lot more tax revenue for the city. There some people who ***** about the $5 or $10 million they spent (the rest were from the federal govt), but when you do the math it's good with the added tax revenue for the city. After a few years, the city's ROI will be close to 100% per year (but not quite since they'll need to spend money on up keep - but it will probably be very high). The 606 is cutting into a neighborhood that was in need too - and while some people will cry gentrification, it is providing help to a neighborhood in need (Humboldt Park) by giving them a great resource.
The riverwalk is the same story. Even if it subconsciously convinces only 30,000 people a year to visit the city who normally wouldn't for 3 days at an average of $200/night for a hotel, that's $3M/year in added hotel tax revenue. Not to mention the added tax revenue for eating out and whatever else. After a few years, the returns on the riverwalk will probably be very, very high. This is money that can be used to pump into other neighborhoods and it's a constant funding source for this. If you didn't have this funding source, then the money being pumped into neighborhoods would become stagnant. So this is a very good thing when you think about it.
So while the city needs all the money it can get, these projects (along with others going on now) will help that. Sometimes if you want to make money, you have to spend a little first. I don't know why people don't understand this simple economic fact.
Now, the two huge parcels of land on the south I mentioned that extend for probably over a mile north of PTP along the river are 75 acres and now have plans to develop them. Only an idiot developer wouldn't develop a riverwalk there. And it's going to cost the city next to nothing.If nothing else, if these two sites get fully developed, it could allow people to walk on the river from PTP to the South Loop.
I understand what you mean about the stigma, but they need to do these things to have extra funding going into those areas. Not to mention there ARE things going on in the south side. Remember, the city offered up land on the SS for the Obama Library, not the north side. There are new things going on in Jackson Park and Pullman right now too. Lake Shore Drive was also recently expanded on the SS. Investment has been coming into Bronzeville for the last few years as well. Theaster Gates also has his projects on the SS which the city has been very kind to him by selling buildings for $1 so he can revitalize areas.
Yea, I'm into this stuff. There are a lot more benefits from these public works than most people give credit for. Just figured that extending the riverwalk south as quickly as possible would probably help appease some of the critics.
Yea, I'm into this stuff. There are a lot more benefits from these public works than most people give credit for. Just figured that extending the riverwalk south as quickly as possible would probably help appease some of the critics.
Yeah, I know what you're saying and I agree. Buuuut, 75 acres of the land between Chinatown and South Loop is owned privately. As I stated before, within the last month there's been a little bit of a commitment to develop the land here. Even if the city extended the Riverwalk south more, it would only get as far as the south end of the Loop before it runs into all this private property. I don't think it would appease anyone. Nowadays, the South Loop is kind of bougie/yuppie and is mainly viewed that way. Even though it's not on the north side, it's still viewed as a neighborhood in the same category.
Going North would be great, but it seems to me that it makes more sense for the city to prioritize going south with it instead to get rid of the stigma that the city is only taking care of the wealthy and gentrified neighborhoods.
Of course, there are a lot of things that it seems like Chicago could/should do that would really put in a higher tier, but the city isn't really having the greatest time right now. It's odd, because Chicago seems to have a lot of amazing low hanging fruit to make it amazing, but the city just doesn't have the funds to reach for them.
It's not really odd, because you hit the nail on the head; the city doesn't have the money. The Illinois Supreme Court ruled that the state's pension fix was unconstitutional, Chicago's credit rating was lowered to junk status, and now it's up to Springfield to find a fix for us all before both Chicago and Illinois get guillotined.
Mind you, I'm not saying a solution won't be found in time, but if one isn't, we're seriously screwed.
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Then again, I'm all for road-dieting Lake Shore Drive and that's probably one of those things that should do wonders for the city but would **** most people off.
Unless that road-diet is to make room for dedicated lanes for the express buses, you'd have half the city want your head on a spike. Hell, even if it was for that, the city would still be furious. Much of Lake Shore, especially on the North Side, is a parking lot during the morning commute, and taking away lanes certainly wouldn't help that.
The L probably wouldn't be able to handle the increased amount of people trying to head south into the Loop unless something was done, because now people are already packed in like sardines, and sometimes you have to wait for the next train to even be able to push in.
Toronto is pretty liberal actually and there are plenty gay clubs and niche clubs in the city with lots of interesting things going on -depending on your likes there really is something for everyone.. If you come up again PM me and let me know what scene you would like and I'll point you there - I've probably been involved in it at one time or the other...
Anyway - sounds like you had a great time so that's the main thing
Chicago's certainly not puritanical, but the city's government hasn't felt the need to change the laws regarding full nudity strip clubs serving alcohol. Some alderman had recommended changing it in order to enhance already packed entertainment districts, but they haven't gained enough traction yet. Stuff can move slowly through the council though. Food trucks in which food is actually cooked only became legal a few years back, for example.
That aside, I'll have to hit you up for some suggestions the next time I go.
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The place that you said is Toronto's version of Time Square is called Dundas Square... Its actually not bad and in the summer on the weekends there is usually always free concerts/events going on.. They actually had an Amateur boxing match there last summer of all things - nothing is off the weird limits there actually.. I also like to watch the religious folks yelling at you leaving the Eaton Centre about the sins of shopping and capitalism lol.. Nothing like walking out of H&M only to be told on a loudspeaker that your going to hell for buying some Chino shorts..
Oh the religious nuts are great. They love to yell at the tourists on Michigan Ave here from time to time, but the staple is this one guy over on State Street who's there every day with his mic and speaker.
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