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Per Capita Income really isn't the best indicator of how wealthy/powerful a city is. San Francisco has nowhere near the amount of urban poverty as older cities on the East Coast. This drastically effects per capita income. San Francisco has essentially priced out the poor. I can see San Francisco ranking high on surveys/opinion polls because it really is a beautiful city but it does not and will not ever compare to the power and prestige of NYC.
Per Capita Income really isn't the best indicator of how wealthy/powerful a city is. San Francisco has nowhere near the amount of urban poverty as older cities on the East Coast. This drastically effects per capita income. San Francisco has essentially priced out the poor. I can see San Francisco ranking high on surveys/opinion polls because it really is a beautiful city but it does not and will not ever compare to the power and prestige of NYC.
Yes, New Yok City is simply far too vast in population for it's own good. If you look at its "producticity" and wealth stats, the wealth comes from the very same areas. New York's long standing open door policy for the third world's unskilled (Puerto Rico/Dominican republic especially) just drags down its average statistics in compared to SF which has a much smaller and more educated group of Asians streaming in.
On paper, Boston, Mineapolis and Seattle are no doubt "richer" than London. But anyone with half a brain knows that isn't the case. It's so diffucult comparing more "normal" cities like Boston, San Francisco, Dallas to more complex mega cities like London, New York or Paris.
Comparing the equivalent/top corridors in each city, New York is far richer.
Manhattan vs San Francisco - Manhattan is perhaps the richest place on planet earth. The highest income bracket in the U.S. and San Francisco simply can not compare. Nowhere on the planet has as many billioniares in sheer numbers nor in percentage as Manhattan. Hell, the tiny isle of Manhattan alone has far more billioniares in raw numbers than the entire Bay Area. (70 vs 43)
The comparable burbs. Marin vs Hunterdon vs Fairfield vs Westchester vs San Mateo vs Santa Clara vs Nassau. There are simply way more rich people in New York vs the Bay Area.
Counties by % 200,000+ income earners.
1. Hunterdon County, NJ 17%
2. Manhattan, NY 16%
4. Westchester County, NY 16%
5. Fairfield County, CT 16%
6. Somerset County, NJ 16%
7. Marin County, CA 15%
9. Morris County, NJ 15%
11. Nassau County, NY14%
14. Santa Clara County, CA, 13%
15. San Mateo County, CA 13% 18. Bergen County, NJ 12% 21. Rockland County, NY 12% 24. San Francisco County, CA 11%
I echo what someone said earleier -- I doubt anywhere in the world can compete with NYC in terms of riches.
I love how the stats popping up that look at individual places but not the whole CSA vs the whole CSA.
Nice attempt to change the subject but no.
The undisputable fact is, The San Francisco Bay Area has a greater proportion of wealthy households and families than the New York Area and has a higher per capita, median and average household and family income.
And so to answer the orignal question yet again: Convince me why SF is better?
I currently live in SoCal, but might be relocating to SF. I am from the East Coast and lived in NYC for many years. Moving out of CA is not currently an option, so I'm trying to get excited about the prospect of moving to SF.
I have liked SF quite a bit when I've gone up to visit - the walkability, the food, and the culture all seem pretty wonderful. However, it's hard not to compare it to New York, especially when you're basically paying the same amount for rent and living expenses.
I'd like to live a car free lifestyle. It is very, very easy to do this in NYC, but in SF the public transportation seems slow and plagued by problems. Also, SF seems much more sketchy and crime-ridden than the parts of NYC that I lived in. Way more homeless people, crazies, and quiet creepy abandoned areas in SF. Also, it seems like SF closes up pretty early - I miss being able to get takeout at 11PM.
So to those of you who know both cities well - tell me about the things that make living in SF better than living in NYC. And yeah yeah, I know about the weather. I'm currently in LA, which beats both of them sun and temp wise (but sucks in the city lifestyle department).
Thanks!
Call me a city snob, but I feel so uncomfortable living in cities like San Francisco. My main home must be New York/Paris/London, nothing else cuts it. I've lived in smaller cities and I felt like I'm missing something not living a New York City or a Paris. Here in the United States, I have to be in the largest and greatest because clearly, everything important and exciting happens in New York.
But then again, like most, you might be a much more simpler person than me. If that's the case then I'm sure you could enjoy living somewhere like San Francisco. LOL.
I've been everywhere, lived in numerous cities/countries, and New York City is an urban wonderland. I absolutely love living here -- everything I could possibly want is here. Nothing on this continent comes close in terms of being a city. Nothing in America fulfills my high standards like New York does. I can see why some love San Francisco, but San Francisco will never approach the grandeur/excitement/style/glamour/energy/mystique of New York. The best of everything can be found in New York, such is the result of being one of the 2~3 premier world cities.
I love how the stats popping up that look at individual places but not the whole CSA vs the whole CSA.
Nice attempt to change the subject but no.
The undisputable fact is, The San Francisco Bay Area has a greater proportion of wealthy households and families than the New York Area and has a higher per capita, median and average household and family income.
And so to answer the orignal question yet again: Convince me why SF is better?
The Bay Area is more affluent.
PERIOD.
But was the original poster comparing the entire San Francisco CSA to the New York City CSA? I take it he meant Manhattan vs San Francisco (it seemed that way when he was comparing the costs)
New York has FAR more rich people and that's undisputable.
But was the original poster comparing the San Francisco CSA to the New York City CSA? I take it he meant Manhattan vs San Francisco (it seemed that way when he was comparing the costs)
New York has FAR more rich people and that's undisputable.
yes, but proportionally not so much.
Speaking of which, please tell your Mayor to sue the Census Bureau so our cities can ride on NYCs coattails.
Yeah, that SF or the Bay Area beats NY or the NY area in certain areas per capita only means so much. Per capitas and percents have their value but they're also for people who want to avoid the truth that hard numbers offer too.
NYC has over 8,000,000 people, SF has over 800,000, it's really far less difficult for SF to "lose" anything in certain areas in per capita against NY because it has 10X less people, and in that case a much smaller pool to draw from that can't be as "corrupted" as NY's.
It's the same with MSAs and CSAs, it's 19,000,000 to 4,000,000 and 22,000,000 to 7,000,000 between the two of them. Looking back at say this for CSA...
Households Earning $200,000+ Annually, 2009
San Francisco CSA 9.9% (693,000)
New York CSA 8.4% (1,848,000)
You should realize that 9.9% of 7,000,000 (693,000) is far smaller than 8.4% of 22,000,000 (1,848,000). And that's how it goes for most everything else too, percent of diversity, and whatever else. And look, out of 7,000,000 people the Bay Area has 9.9% in this aspect and the much larger 22,000,000 NY area has a not so far below 8.4%, a lil over a percent difference, out of a much larger pool of people to screw the number up. This speaks more to New York's power, not SF's. But take even larger percent differences.
Minority Households as a percentage of Households Earning $200,000+ Annually, 2009 San Francisco CSA 31.1% (2,177,000)
New York CSA 18.7% (4,114,000)
Minority Families as a percentage of all families earning $200,000+, 2009
San Francisco CSA 32.2% (2,254,000)
New York CSA 12.6% (2,772,000)
New York is just so much bigger that it even in the smallest numerical difference here (just above) it only takes 12% of NY to beat 32% of the Bay. The Bay can claim larger percent "victories" but that doesn't translate at all into actual "victories" in reality. With NY's much larger population it's less concentrated and has easier diluted statistics, but even then NY "wins" numerically, and if you concentrate NY down to SF's size or it's best parts like Manhattan it could post enormous percent advantages too, so really, how is this supposed to show SF's superiority in anything?
And one last thing, people were talking about restaurants earlier and how SF can beat NY overall in better but cheaper food. Not to be ridiculous about it but has anyone eaten at every restaurant in SF and NY. You're comparing a city of 800,000 in 47 square miles to a city of 8,000,000 in 304 square miles, it's really pretty much statistically impossible to have for SF to beat NY in variety in pretty much anything. It also works the same way as earlier, NY has way more restaurants than SF and so there's also more of a chance for crappy places to eat to show up more often but NY has both good and bad in more abundance than SF, it's simple numbers. Seriously, 8,000,000 people in 300 miles, if you look hard enough you can find pretty much anything for anyone, can SF say the same thing backwards? Can you find everything or anything you find in NY in SF? It's just too small to compare and that's the reality of it.
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