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Yes it does sound familiar. But that is the paradox of the Midwest. Locals had issues with Black migrants when they themselves migrated there a few generations earlier. It was the fate of Blacks moving to the Midwest they had to endure from others who themselves had moved to the Midwest from the Northeast, or wherever. You think you're moving away from Blacks and then they move where you move. Very familiar.
This is all great information. Bhutanese take over the North side of Akron and people do not know what to make of it. Bhutanese aren't assimilating. But a lot of the Italians left the North side when Blacks started moving in once the redlining was lifted and Blacks could get loans.
But all that aside there was and is plenty of room for everyone to do their own thing. I tend to feel the same way about Virginia. Virginia is obviously a lot more expensive, but it's interesting. People have to get out of their own way about the aesthetics of the South and appreciate it for what it's worth. No one really cares about population density or structural density if they wanted that they would just stay in the North as the South tends to lose that numbers game in a lot of ways. Play up what is interesting about the South. Like the seven city thing and the fact that there are more shipyards and military installations in such a small space is fascinating to me. You could never get seven cities anywhere up North like that! NYC is about as close to that as you'll ever get in the North. And you could never get Independent Cities up there either, although I guess Baltimore and St. Louis are outliers. Or Virginia having a higher percentage of Blacks in the state than Ohio. Just don't get into the usual metrics, because people are going to start thinking maybe they're better off staying put.
My sister, who lives in Atlanta, we took a trip up to Cleveland and rode through Downtown and she said she never realized that it was that extensive and had so much to offer. Playhouse Theater, the Theater district, the condos and lofts downtown all of that. Great structural density. Of course she'll never move, because it's still Cleveland, but knowledge is power.
Thanks for the expansion.
Regarding Virginia's independent cities, that state is unique among all 50 in having a state constitutional provision that makes incorporated cities in the state independent of any county, even if said city is the seat of a county (as Charlottesville is for Albemarle County).
The case of St. Louis, Missouri, is also a special one: the city fathers there voted in 1871 to separate itself from what was then entirely rural St. Louis County. Suburban growth in the 20th century, followed by depopulation of the core city, have caused many there to regard "the Great Divorce" as a shortsighted mistake, but efforts to reunite St. Louis City and St. Louis County have so far foundered.
I'm not sure under what conditions Baltimore City, Maryland, became a separate jurisdiction from Baltimore County.
There is one other independent city in the United States: Carson City, Nevada, that state's capital.
What are more common are cities that have formed unified governments with their surrounding counties. The first of these to do so was Philadelphia, in 1854. The City of New York consolidated five counties within it when it was formed in 1898. The other consolidated city-counties I know of are:
Jacksonville, Florida (with Duval County)
Indianapolis, Indiana (with Marion County)
Louisville, Kentucky (with Jefferson County)
Nashville, Tennessee (with Davidson County)
Kansas City, Kansas (with Wyandotte County)
There are probably others.
Dade County, Florida, now calls itself "Miami-Dade County," but I don't know whether Dade County and the City of Miami are now one government - I don't think they are.
San Francisco, California, has been a city and county since its creation.
Oh, and: Seven cities in Hampton Roads? I know four: Norfolk, Newport News, Hampton, Virginia Beach. What are the other three?
I do know that Hampton Roads is Virginia's largest urban area, but I have yet to see the city centers of any of its consitutent cities. You already know my opinion of Richmond, which is pretty high.
I do know that Hampton Roads is Virginia's largest urban area, but I have yet to see the city centers of any of its consitutent cities. You already know my opinion of Richmond, which is pretty high.
I consider NoVA to be VA's largest urban area. That's another way in which it is unique as NoVA itself doesn't really have a traditional "city" that's the center of the region. Alexandria would of course be the "real city" by Northern standards in the region.
I consider NoVA to be VA's largest urban area. That's another way in which it is unique as NoVA itself doesn't really have a traditional "city" that's the center of the region. Alexandria would of course be the "real city" by Northern standards in the region.
NoVA is Virginia's largest urban area. Definitely right about Alexandria.
Counting my chickens until they make Fairfax County into a city. Good times.
Regarding Virginia's independent cities, that state is unique among all 50 in having a state constitutional provision that makes incorporated cities in the state independent of any county, even if said city is the seat of a county (as Charlottesville is for Albemarle County).
The case of St. Louis, Missouri, is also a special one: the city fathers there voted in 1871 to separate itself from what was then entirely rural St. Louis County. Suburban growth in the 20th century, followed by depopulation of the core city, have caused many there to regard "the Great Divorce" as a shortsighted mistake, but efforts to reunite St. Louis City and St. Louis County have so far foundered.
I'm not sure under what conditions Baltimore City, Maryland, became a separate jurisdiction from Baltimore County.
There is one other independent city in the United States: Carson City, Nevada, that state's capital.
What are more common are cities that have formed unified governments with their surrounding counties. The first of these to do so was Philadelphia, in 1854. The City of New York consolidated five counties within it when it was formed in 1898. The other consolidated city-counties I know of are:
Jacksonville, Florida (with Duval County)
Indianapolis, Indiana (with Marion County)
Louisville, Kentucky (with Jefferson County)
Nashville, Tennessee (with Davidson County)
Kansas City, Kansas (with Wyandotte County)
There are probably others.
Dade County, Florida, now calls itself "Miami-Dade County," but I don't know whether Dade County and the City of Miami are now one government - I don't think they are.
San Francisco, California, has been a city and county since its creation.
Oh, and: Seven cities in Hampton Roads? I know four: Norfolk, Newport News, Hampton, Virginia Beach. What are the other three?
I do know that Hampton Roads is Virginia's largest urban area, but I have yet to see the city centers of any of its consitutent cities. You already know my opinion of Richmond, which is pretty high.
Hampton Roads has the largest cities. Northern Virginia has the county with the largest population. The actual cities in Northern Virginia are smaller and have fewer people, but when you put it together with Fairfax County, which itself is over a million people, Northern Virginia is the largest urban area. Hampton Roads cities aren't known for being the most dense. Northern Virginia's cities tend to be more dense, as they're closer to DC, even though they're smaller physically and in population. Richmond has the higher population density and structural density. I know it is really confusing.
This is how it plays out at the end of the day
Northern Virginia 3.149 million
Hampton Roads 1.676 million
Richmond MSA 1.263 million
The other three cities in Hampton Roads are Williamsburg, Chesapeake and Suffolk
To use an analogy, we'll say Northern Virginia is Cleveland, Hampton Roads is Columbus and Richmond is Cincinnati. That is something Ohioans, or people familiar with Ohio, can relate to. Break it down even further Alexandria itself is Cleveland and Northern Virginia is the suburbs of Cleveland. Norfolk is Columbus and the other six cities are Columbus' suburbs and I think Richmond speaks for itself. Can't take that analogy literally because of the breakdown in population but in terms of how urban what area is compared to what other area I think it works.
Hampton Roads has the largest cities. Northern Virginia has the county with the largest population. The actual cities in Northern Virginia are smaller and have fewer people, but when you put it together with Fairfax County, which itself is over a million people, Northern Virginia is the largest urban area. Hampton Roads cities aren't known for being the most dense. Northern Virginia's cities tend to be more dense, as they're closer to DC, even though they're smaller physically and in population. Richmond has the higher population density and structural density. I know it is really confusing.
This is how it plays out at the end of the day
Northern Virginia 3.149 million
Hampton Roads 1.676 million
Richmond MSA 1.263 million
The other three cities in Hampton Roads are Williamsburg, Chesapeake and Suffolk
To use an analogy, we'll say Northern Virginia is Cleveland, Hampton Roads is Columbus and Richmond is Cincinnati. That is something Ohioans, or people familiar with Ohio, can relate to. Break it down even further Alexandria itself is Cleveland and Northern Virginia is the suburbs of Cleveland. Norfolk is Columbus and the other six cities are Columbus' suburbs and I think Richmond speaks for itself. Can't take that analogy literally because of the breakdown in population but in terms of how urban what area is compared to what other area I think it works.
Nope, it's Chesapeake, Suffolk, and Portsmouth. Williamsburg is probably more tied to Richmond than Norfolk these days. Even without Williamsburg, there are really 8 cities but everyone forgets about Poquoson.
Hampton Roads has the largest cities. Northern Virginia has the county with the largest population. The actual cities in Northern Virginia are smaller and have fewer people, but when you put it together with Fairfax County, which itself is over a million people, Northern Virginia is the largest urban area. Hampton Roads cities aren't known for being the most dense. Northern Virginia's cities tend to be more dense, as they're closer to DC, even though they're smaller physically and in population. Richmond has the higher population density and structural density. I know it is really confusing.
This is how it plays out at the end of the day
Northern Virginia 3.149 million
Hampton Roads 1.676 million
Richmond MSA 1.263 million
The other three cities in Hampton Roads are Williamsburg, Chesapeake and Suffolk
To use an analogy, we'll say Northern Virginia is Cleveland, Hampton Roads is Columbus and Richmond is Cincinnati. That is something Ohioans, or people familiar with Ohio, can relate to. Break it down even further Alexandria itself is Cleveland and Northern Virginia is the suburbs of Cleveland. Norfolk is Columbus and the other six cities are Columbus' suburbs and I think Richmond speaks for itself. Can't take that analogy literally because of the breakdown in population but in terms of how urban what area is compared to what other area I think it works.
The only place where the analogy in your last paragraph breaks down is that Washington, DC, is Northern Virginia's Cleveland. (Alexandria, however, includes the southern tip of the 10-mile square the Federal government returned to Virginia in 1846, and Arlington County makes up the remainder of that square.)
Which is why I didn't think of it when I tallied up Virginia's urban areas.
Otherwise, it's understandable.
I think I need to head into one of the Hampton Roads cities other than Williamsburg, which has a historical theme park at its core, on a future visit. The region still strikes me as less coherent than either Richmond or NoVa.
I consider NoVA to be VA's largest urban area. That's another way in which it is unique as NoVA itself doesn't really have a traditional "city" that's the center of the region. Alexandria would of course be the "real city" by Northern standards in the region.
See my comment immediately above this one.
The "core city" of Northern Virginia is the District of Columbia.
Of which John F. Kennedy once remarked that it "combines Southern efficiency and Northern charm."
The only place where the analogy in your last paragraph breaks down is that Washington, DC, is Northern Virginia's Cleveland. (Alexandria, however, includes the southern tip of the 10-mile square the Federal government returned to Virginia in 1846, and Arlington County makes up the remainder of that square.)
Which is why I didn't think of it when I tallied up Virginia's urban areas.
Otherwise, it's understandable.
I think I need to head into one of the Hampton Roads cities other than Williamsburg, which has a historical theme park at its core, on a future visit. The region still strikes me as less coherent than either Richmond or NoVa.
You're right just keep it simple and say DC.
You could say that about Hampton Roads. Some would actually say that you're putting it nicely or being politically correct, but you could say that. Among other things.
Hampton Roads is by no means perfect. The road layout and the fact that so many of the roads are state routes, US routes, interstates, and few roads actually go straight is it's own cluster_. The way the area is governed and how things are accomplished around here is another story altogether. Spend any time here and it is clear why people store their money in skyscrapers and other meaningless things, instead of actually improving the infrastructure. So many things for people that already have money and so few things for people trying to get money. That's all that I'm going to say about that. Basically it is a region of suburbs and neighborhoods ruled by NIMBY until there is eminent domain and nothing resembling an actual city, in any of these seven cities. I'm done now I'm sure that someone around here is watching ...
I consider NoVA to be VA's largest urban area. That's another way in which it is unique as NoVA itself doesn't really have a traditional "city" that's the center of the region. Alexandria would of course be the "real city" by Northern standards in the region.
Call mine. Let’s not pretend that nor the Virginia is anything other than the DC suburbs. It absolutely has a real city, and it exists only in service of that city.
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