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I will agree that in Cleveland the lakefront is not good for recreation but that part is mostly in the city core, just outside city limits Lake Erie provides just as much recreational advantage as Minneapolis's lakes. People boat and swim and jet ski all the same. Aside from the few beaches in city limits the metro area overall has a number beaches including the longest natural beach on Lake Erie. Even surfing will have a greater advantage here because of natural beaches.
As for outdoors the Metroparks provide everything from horse trails to river valleys that surround the entire city and the suburbs, and even then bordering the southern end of the Metroparks system is the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
In my opinion I think Cleveland offers just as many recreational advantages as Minneapolis, the only difference is Cleveland's is probably further spread out.
Nightlife and vibrancy goes to Minneapolis, because there are just more young professionals in the city than Cleveland. Cleveland has nightlife as well but Minneapolis provides more because of the yuppie scene.
However if it's one thing I think Cleveland does better than Minneapolis, it's the ethnic culture and the food. The ethnic neighborhoods in Cleveland cannot be beat and this is reflected in the food here. The West Side Market is only just one example.
Cleveland has Minneapolis beat in ethnic culture? Are you serious? Minneapolis along with St. Paul have much more ethnic diversity than Cleveland. It's not even close.
2010 Census MPLS - STPL:
Black: 127,080
Hispanic: 67,384
Asian: 69,449
Other Races: 13,646
Cleveland
Black: 213,920
Hispanic: 39,534
Asian: 8,164
Other Races: 2,487
I will agree that in Cleveland the lakefront is not good for recreation but that part is mostly in the city core, just outside city limits Lake Erie provides just as much recreational advantage as Minneapolis's lakes. People boat and swim and jet ski all the same. Aside from the few beaches in city limits the metro area overall has a number beaches including the longest natural beach on Lake Erie. Even surfing will have a greater advantage here because of natural beaches.
Is it mostly just the city core with a bad lakefront, or the entire city since everything you seem to describe is well outside of the actual city of Cleveland. I'm not arguing that no recreational activity goes on in Lake Erie. But the dozens of lakes in the Twin Cities, including The Chain of Lakes provides equal recreation if not better in the sense that all of it is centered around the urban core of the city, thrives with the city and is interconnected with so much different recreation. Be it trails, boating, swimming, biking, concerts or hiking. Not to mention, many people in Minneapolis are extremely involved in outdoor recreational activities - making the outdoor scene much more vibrant in that there are numerous activities going on constantly. Cleveland wins the surfing discussion, but even then - anyone truly interested in surfing isn't going to be in either Minneapolis or Cleveland if given the chance to relocate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDominicana
As for outdoors the Metroparks provide everything from horse trails to river valleys that surround the entire city and the suburbs, and even then bordering the southern end of the Metroparks system is the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
In my opinion I think Cleveland offers just as many recreational advantages as Minneapolis, the only difference is Cleveland's is probably further spread out.
I don't agree with this either. Recreation as a whole - possibly. A recreational advantage though? Certainly not. Like I said above, what makes Minneapolis unique is the great interconnected system between the urban atmosphere of the city and the natural getaways of the city's parks. Everything is seamless and works extremely well for the city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDominicana
Nightlife and vibrancy goes to Minneapolis, because there are just more young professionals in the city than Cleveland. Cleveland has nightlife as well but Minneapolis provides more because of the yuppie scene.
Not to mention the University of Minnesota nestled right downtown as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDominicana
However if it's one thing I think Cleveland does better than Minneapolis, it's the ethnic culture and the food. The ethnic neighborhoods in Cleveland cannot be beat and this is reflected in the food here. The West Side Market is only just one example.
I disagree with this as well. Minneapolis is much more diverse than Cleveland is, even without specific ethnic enclaves. Minneapolis alone is also an excellent place for ethnic food. Especially Asian and East African cuisine, it's impossible to roam around Minneapolis and find fewer than 5-10 ethnic restaurants in your immediate area. In conjunction with St. Paul - there are probably more options for ethnic food in the Twin Cities there is in all of Northeast Ohio.
Twin Cities are almost equadistant to Chicago as Cleveland is (5.5 hours vs. 6.5 hours), but I agree that it's more isolated than Cleveland.
You're wrong on this account too. The lakes in the city is something very unique among American cities, IMO -- I've never seen anything quite like it. Visit and find out for yourself (I can tell you've never been here). The Twin Cities are widely lauded for being an "outdoorsy" city and are highly ranked in such regard, so they are very much a "nature city". This being said, I didn't know Cleveland had a NATIONAL PARK in it! What is it???
Exactly. How many major US cities can you do this within city limits, a few miles from downtown?
Cleveland has Minneapolis beat in ethnic culture? Are you serious? Minneapolis along with St. Paul have much more ethnic diversity than Cleveland. It's not even close.
2010 Census MPLS - STPL:
Black: 127,080
Hispanic: 67,384
Asian: 69,449
Other Races: 13,646
Cleveland
Black: 213,920
Hispanic: 39,534
Asian: 8,164
Other Races: 2,487
Ethnic diversity and ethnic culture are two different things in this aspect. I stand by that Cleveland has Minneapolis beat in ethnic culture, it has nothing to do with the racial demographics for each city. This has to do with age, as Cleveland is much older than Minneapolis. Immigrants from every part of the world specifically from Europe overwhelmingly made the city what it is, ethnic enclaves literally dating back centuries that have been there generation after generation. By demographics, Minneapolis may beat Cleveland for overall diversity but Cleveland's ethnic neighborhoods are stronger simply for the sheer age and character. Its ethnic culture is akin to that of Chicago and Detroit, all of which I think have stronger ethnic neighborhoods than Minneapolis since they are older and are the cities that produced the booms of the majority of immigrants than most other cities in the 20th century and before then. For example Cleveland had many of the largest ethnic groups in the country outside of New York and Chicago and in some cases the largest ethnic groups outside the country of origin. Cleveland was one of the largest cities in the nation for most of the 20th century, it's only natural it's ethnic neighborhoods are stronger.
Is it mostly just the city core with a bad lakefront, or the entire city since everything you seem to describe is well outside of the actual city of Cleveland. I'm not arguing that no recreational activity goes on in Lake Erie. But the dozens of lakes in the Twin Cities, including The Chain of Lakes provides equal recreation if not better in the sense that all of it is centered around the urban core of the city, thrives with the city and is interconnected with so much different recreation. Be it trails, boating, swimming, biking, concerts or hiking. Not to mention, many people in Minneapolis are extremely involved in outdoor recreational activities - making the outdoor scene much more vibrant in that there are numerous activities going on constantly. Cleveland wins the surfing discussion, but even then - anyone truly interested in surfing isn't going to be in either Minneapolis or Cleveland if given the chance to relocate.
I don't agree with this either. Recreation as a whole - possibly. A recreational advantage though? Certainly not. Like I said above, what makes Minneapolis unique is the great interconnected system between the urban atmosphere of the city and the natural getaways of the city's parks. Everything is seamless and works extremely well for the city.
Not to mention the University of Minnesota nestled right downtown as well.
I disagree with this as well. Minneapolis is much more diverse than Cleveland is, even without specific ethnic enclaves. Minneapolis alone is also an excellent place for ethnic food. Especially Asian and East African cuisine, it's impossible to roam around Minneapolis and find fewer than 5-10 ethnic restaurants in your immediate area. In conjunction with St. Paul - there are probably more options for ethnic food in the Twin Cities there is in all of Northeast Ohio.
Again the strength of Cleveland's ethnic neighborhoods comes from their age, not how much of each group is where. This character is reflected more in the cuisine (Minneapolis most likely probably does provide more ethnic restaurants but in this case quality is measured more against quantity). The West Side Market is nationally respected as the best food market in the country, it remains possibly not duplicated in the rest of the nation. In fact The West Side Market was recently voted over cities like London and Toronto to host the International Market Conference in 2012.
Ethnic diversity and ethnic culture are two different things in this aspect. I stand by that Cleveland has Minneapolis beat in ethnic culture, it has nothing to do with the racial demographics for each city. This has to do with age, as Cleveland is much older than Minneapolis. Immigrants from every part of the world specifically from Europe overwhelmingly made the city what it is, ethnic enclaves literally dating back centuries that have been there generation after generation. By demographics, Minneapolis may beat Cleveland for overall diversity but Cleveland's ethnic neighborhoods are stronger simply for the sheer age and character. Its ethnic culture is akin to that of Chicago and Detroit, all of which I think have stronger ethnic neighborhoods than Minneapolis since they are older and are the cities that produced the booms of the majority of immigrants than most other cities in the 20th century and before then. For example Cleveland had many of the largest ethnic groups in the country outside of New York and Chicago and in some cases the largest ethnic groups outside the country of origin. Cleveland was one of the largest cities in the nation for most of the 20th century, it's only natural it's ethnic neighborhoods are stronger.
Cleveland's history has nothing to do with what it is today in respect to ethnic culture. Very little of what you describe remains in Cleveland today, with the exception of Little Italy and various "left-over" areas of concentrated ethnicities. Cleveland doesn't really have much of a hold on any of its former ethnic enclaves, they're certainly nothing like they used to be at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioDominicana
Again the strength of Cleveland's ethnic neighborhoods comes from their age, not how much of each group is where. This character is reflected more in the cuisine (Minneapolis most likely probably does provide more ethnic restaurants but in this case quality is measured more against quantity). The West Side Market is nationally respected as the best food market in the country, it remains possibly not duplicated in the rest of the nation. In fact The West Side Market was recently voted over cities like London and Toronto to host the International Market Conference in 2012.
Like I said - age isn't a factor at all. It's irrelevant. As far as quality vs. quantity - I've eaten a large number of ethnic restaurants in both cities and both are on par with one another in my opinion, that is a weak argument. The West Side Market is interesting and fun, but the Midtown Exchange in Minneapolis accomplishes the same thing.
Cleveland's history has nothing to do with what it is today in respect to ethnic culture. Very little of what you describe remains in Cleveland today, with the exception of Little Italy and various "left-over" areas of concentrated ethnicities. Cleveland doesn't really have much of a hold on any of its former ethnic enclaves, they're certainly nothing like they used to be at all.
Like I said - age isn't a factor at all. It's irrelevant. As far as quality vs. quantity - I've eaten a large number of ethnic restaurants in both cities and both are on par with one another in my opinion, that is a weak argument. The West Side Market is interesting and fun, but the Midtown Exchange in Minneapolis accomplishes the same thing.
Really? The groups that have dominated the city's culture for most of its existence still remain. Those "left over" areas I would say pay more respect to ethnic culture today because of their long history. Little Italy is still Italian. West Park is still Irish. Slavic Village is still mainly Poles. Asiatown is still Asian.The Ukrainians are still on the south side, the Slovenians are still on the far east side still hosting their daily Slovenian radio show. They are still in the same neighborhoods they have always been in which is why they're still around. The main ethnic groups that have always dominated the city's culture are still around. Cleveland has lost some population in some ethnic groups but those groups weren't very large to begin with (possibly because they weren't around as long as the more prominent groups, again owing to history and age). For example, Lithuanians don't have a very noticeable presence anymore, but they only began arriving in large waves around 1900. Cleveland's Asian community predates the 1860's, first settling near what is today Downtown. What do you know, they are still near Downtown today. So I will refute that Cleveland's history plays respect to its ethnic culture.
There are many markets in America that accomplish the same thing, that's not the point. Every city has immigrants. What makes the West Side Market so special is its overall character (again owing to its history of families helping families for generations). The thing that sets Cleveland apart is that it is not a transient place that people move to and move out in a bustle because of things like business, weather, etc. Cleveland was built on its immigrants who arrived here a long long time ago and NEVER left. Almost everyone still in Northeast Ohio is the descendant of those immigrant families. Anyone here will tell you, the biggest value for Clevelanders above all else is family (probably why OP is even comparing Minneapolis to Cleveland in the first place). These people are here for a lifetime. Unlike Minneapolis this may be the very reason why Cleveland is not a yuppie paradise.It doesn't make Cleveland any worse than Minneapolis, it's just a different culture and there's nothing wrong with that.
So Cleveland's ethnic culture AND history has a distinct impact on its cuisine. For example, the native Polish Boy, which according to Esquire is one of the best sandwiches in America, along with other "bests". Nearly every major food critic and magazine hails Cleveland's food scene as one of the best around, for example Chicago Tribune and Food Network naming it America's hottest dining city. Since it is food that can be found in other cities I can't help but to think that whatever's so special about the food here has to come from the people here who make it.
Last edited by RioDominicana; 04-03-2011 at 12:03 AM..
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackOut
Cleveland has Minneapolis beat in ethnic culture? Are you serious? Minneapolis along with St. Paul have much more ethnic diversity than Cleveland. It's not even close.
2010 Census MPLS - STPL:
Black: 127,080
Hispanic: 67,384
Asian: 69,449
Other Races: 13,646
Cleveland
Black: 213,920
Hispanic: 39,534
Asian: 8,164
Other Races: 2,487
In fairness, Cleveland is pretty ethnic as well (white ethnic for sure). So many Italian, Greek, etc. places in Cleveland. I think that's what he may have meant, and I pretty much agree. As far as international food is concerned, you may have a point yourself.
Twin Cities are almost equadistant to Chicago as Cleveland is (5.5 hours vs. 6.5 hours), but I agree that it's more isolated than Cleveland.
You're wrong on this account too. The lakes in the city is something very unique among American cities, IMO -- I've never seen anything quite like it. Visit and find out for yourself (I can tell you've never been here). The Twin Cities are widely lauded for being an "outdoorsy" city and are highly ranked in such regard, so they are very much a "nature city". This being said, I didn't know Cleveland had a NATIONAL PARK in it! What is it???
I have been to the Twin Cities and have seen some of those lakes, so please, don't tell me where I have been. They are nice, but they don't do as much for me as big open water.
Cleveland's national park is the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. It as actually just south of the city, between Cleveland and Akron.
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